What is life really like in the UK?

[YellowEyePenguin]

I apologize in advance for the long post! But I would really like to get some opinions from people.

My British husband and I (also British) are currently living in Dunedin, New Zealand, with our two daughters, ages 6 and 8. We've been in NZ for 15 years now and are really considering moving home to the UK. We never intended to stay in NZ but, long story short, accidentally got swept along with life and are still here. On the whole life is pretty OK. We're very happily married and our kids are at a wonderful school. We're also really lucky that my sister and her family live in the same city. However, we just pine for home. We're both very close to our families but find, because of the time difference, it's incredibly hard to keep in touch as much as we'd like, and our parents are now in their mid seventies. I feel scared at the thought of missing out on their last decade or so. And wish my children could have a relationship with them.

On top of that we feel like it's so hard to make any connections here. We love our house and the wildlife and coastline. But we have very few friends and so most of our time is spent as a little unit of four. We're also increasingly frustrated by the enormous cost of living and the fact that we'll never be able to afford to improve our house (for example, double glazing would cost $70,000 and so we're forced to constantly battle the mould and the condensation). We can't afford to explore the rest of NZ and so are confined to our small, geographically isolated, city. Any money we do have goes into a separate account used for trips to visit home. And we're miserable at the thought of growing old here.

The issue is that we are trying to decide what to do for the best; particularly for our girls' sakes. Both of our parents are really concerned that we want to return to the UK and they believe that NZ offers a better life for them. Both sets of parents have mentioned that the UK doesn't feel as safe anymore, with increasing violence and aggression since Covid. And that there is a general feeling of despondency in the country.

We don't feel that NZ is the utopia that a lot of our family seem to think is. It has its own political, economical and social problems. But we're really trying to gauge whether our parents' concerns are true. We know the country will be different to when we last lived there and expect to have dissatisfaction with various things, but hope that being close to family again, and the countryside etc will outweigh it.

Id love to hear how you all feel the situation in the UK is at the moment. And I do know that it is entirely subjective and will depend on where you are, your income, your relationships and so on. I'm just going round and round with the looming decisions, especially as I would want to move relatively soon, while my daughters are still young.

We're hoping to relocate to Norfolk.

Editing to add that my major concern is the children. They are both very sensitive and find change challenging. In some ways i feel like life could be better for them in the UK, but I worry that they might be really impacted by the upheaval. Also, their school is just amazing, very nurturing and supportive and I would be so sad to leave it.

Why should I report it? Using AI for writing posts is not against guidelines, it's fun fun. The way the post is written reminds me of my ds' s attempt at getting AI to do his homework 😂

I think come for a 3 month holiday and see how it feels that way you are not committed straight away and by the end of the 3 months you should know if u wanna stay ! X

I am 56 and what I have noticed amongst my peer group is a creeping malaise of disappointment and dissatisfaction a few saying they wouldn’t have had children re life in the uk now. It is sad to say broken the general feeling is one of awful towns litter everywhere no NHS schools are awful and underfunded more interest in gender id than real issues. I am encouraging my son not to stay here

It sounds like you are facing a difficult decision regarding whether to move back to the UK or stay in New Zealand. This is indeed a complex and highly personal choice that will depend on various factors. I can provide some general insights into the situation in the UK as of my last knowledge update in September 2021, but please keep in mind that circumstances can change, and it's important to research and consider the most up-to-date information and your specific circumstances.
Pros of Moving Back to the UK:

1. Family Proximity: Being closer to your parents and having your children develop a closer relationship with their grandparents can be a significant advantage, especially as your parents are getting older.
2. Cultural Connection: Returning to the UK can provide your family with a stronger connection to British culture, traditions, and heritage.
3. Educational Opportunities: The UK offers a wide range of educational opportunities, including excellent schools and universities, which could be beneficial for your children's future.
4. Quality of Life: Depending on your specific location in the UK, you may find improved access to healthcare, public services, and a variety of cultural and recreational activities.
5. Support Network: Having family nearby can provide you with a built-in support network, which can be valuable, especially during challenging times.

Cons of Moving Back to the UK:

1. Cost of Living: The cost of living in the UK, including housing, can be high, and it's essential to consider how this may impact your family's finances.
2. Change for Children: Moving to a new country can be challenging for children, especially if they are leaving behind friends, a supportive school environment, and familiar surroundings. However, children are also resilient and adaptable.
3. Weather: The UK is known for its variable weather, which may differ significantly from the climate in New Zealand. This is something to consider, especially if you have grown accustomed to New Zealand's climate.
4. Safety Concerns: Your parents have expressed concerns about safety in the UK. While it's important to research safety conditions in specific areas, the overall safety situation can vary widely within the UK.
5. Social and Political Climate: The social and political climate in the UK can change over time, so it's a good idea to stay informed about the current state of affairs and how it might impact your family.

Ultimately, your decision should take into account your family's priorities and values. You might consider visiting Norfolk and other potential locations in the UK to get a sense of what life there would be like and whether it aligns with your family's needs and desires.

Additionally, it could be helpful to seek advice from expatriates who have made similar moves and speak with professionals or organizations that specialize in expatriate relocation to get a better understanding of the practical aspects of moving back to the UK.

Remember that making such a significant life change is a process, and it's natural to have concerns and uncertainties. Weigh the pros and cons carefully, communicate openly with your family, and make a decision that you believe is best for your family's overall well-being.

^ai's thoughts on OP's dilemma.

It's not the same place it was 15 years ago, that's for sure. If you have money and don't need the NHS you'd be alright.

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I would be more concerned about your children having such a limited social life/ skill set given the lack of enriching friendships and social connectivity where you are. The opportunities become very limited as the children get older and become teens and the adolescent suicide rate is usually high in NZ. Not many people understand how isolating it is.

My main issue in NZ was the isolation, the picturesque setting soon becomes obsolete when you feel lonely, and your children will soon be teens and looking at universities etc and the U.K. has world class universities and opportunities for young professionals.

We live in the countryside and close to a market town, our nhs has improved here not declined, and services and community links are very strong. Village schools are well supported, and offer a very high standard of education. Children here rise horses, play in the forests pretty much the same as they always did.

Where would you move back to? This might be helpful to know.

I would return sooner rather later if you are going to - your children will adjust much faster whilst they are young. My friend returned when dc were 18 and 16 ( they were so bored in nz and their son had started to take drugs) one teen loved it and the other wanted to go back. It has been heart breaking for her having the family split into two. There is a small window that decreases with age when dc are flexible to change.

We love our life in the U.K. for what it’s worth. We enjoy the variety and there is so much to do here for young people. We take the Eurostar to European capitals and really enjoy the lifestyle having lived overseas for years. The brits like to moan nothing is ever good enough, but many are not aware of just how fortunate they are.

Where we live life seems pretty nice. We’re in the commuter belt in London, and have a nice home, good doctors and dentists, plenty of good state and private schools and so on.

Little to no crime, no antisocial behaviour, children play out in the street and so on.

We’ve family in Yorkshire, Newcastle and Northumberland for whom life is very similar, and I do believe that there are a great many places where you can have a decent job, nice house, and pleasant life here.

To help inform people talking about the CoL, here's a take on costs in Dunedin, NZ:
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/dunedin?currency=GBP

I would definitely advise you to rent and see, keeping your house in NZ. Try living the grandparent thing, perhaps for 6m-1yr.

Although I don't have major regrets moving back, my DH does. He thought certain things would be better (buddy groups in particular) and they aren't. Do not underestimate the friendships you have at the moment, even the annoying ones. You'll likely not have anything like them for many years if you move to the UK and it will likely feel more just the 4 of you for some considerable time. That's what we experienced and in that aspect it's been very hard.

I am speaking from a bit of experience as I started a lovely life in Australia and came back to UK, plus a close friend of mine is now in a partly similar situation to you in NZ.

For me, being near my UK family and friends trumped everything. Good job, living near stunning beaches, fabulous food etc just didn't compensate for the relationship connections I was missing in the UK. I don't regret it.

My friend who is in NZ right now, I think she will stay there. She was brought up moving all over the world (diplomat's daughter) and she sees her friends in NZ that she's made in the last few years as just as good as the friends she has dotted around the world from different times in her life. Also she's avoiding pretty horrendous in laws in the uk.

It sounds to me like the family and friendship pull of the uk will decide it for you OP.

I think Norfolk is a great choice, and I don’t think UK is a bad place to live at all.

I felt the same, we had a very glamorous dream life, but it felt empty and meaningless after a while. My occasional homesickness became constant, and I realised I missed feeling the sense of belonging/ safety/ being at ‘home’

I read your post OP with every sinew of me screaming ‘don't do it’

i am midway between your parents age and yours, and have spent a few months in New Zealand.

We came back from NZ in 2003, determined to emigrate but failed to achieve that because our children were upset at the idea of leaving their friends here in the UK and our parents were worried about not seeing us again (no facetime then etc.)

As it turned out we lost all our parents within 2-3 years (all 3 died at quite a young age) and later our children decided to emigrate off their own backs. By the time the children went it was too late for us to follow.

I now bitterly regret choosing the UK over NZ. Brexit has been a disaster, the NHS is in free-fall and it is almost impossible to get medical care without paying, public services are deteriorating, the cost of living scary etc. etc.

My children’s lives are immeasurably better in NZ and while I miss them I am relieved they are there. I suspect your parents feel the same.

My friends there are also much happier that they left the UK when they did. One flies home every six months to see her Mum and when we meet for supper her first words are always about the deterioration here.

In your shoes I would be staying. I am not sure why you chose Dunedin to settle but if you are not happy there is it worth moving?

If I was your parent I would be urging you to stay put and would be horrified at the idea of you uprooting yourself for me. We don't have children to hold them tight as adults. I believe they should be out there exploring the world on their own terms

I wouldn't bother to love to the UK if I were in your shoes.
Little to no healthcare, everything is expensive, everywhere is becoming unsafer. It's also extremely busy, traffic everywhere.
I only noticed how bad it's become when I went abroad on holiday and never wanted to return.

Here is the thing
Moving back is not moving "home". It is a move and should be treated as such, you wont just slot into a life, you will have to work at it. The friends you see once in a blue moon when you may not be the people you want in your life on a regular basis.
You are going to have to set up social networks for you and your kids.

Is it just the pull of your parents in their mid 70s that is the main contributory factor to wanting to return?

I think it is very easy at times to think the grass is greener and I type this as somebody who probably thinks the grass is greener in NZ than it is here in the UK. You say yourselves your children will have a better quality of life in NZ than in the UK, although I'm assuming they were born there so if you did return they would have dual citizenship.

Answers will be very subjective based on where people live etc. We live on the south coast, but if we had the option of swapping to live in NZ for a year I would grab that chance with both hands. Public services are underfunded. You can wait for a GP appointment, we have a very inept Tory government and school standards for state education are pretty poor. Lack of support for SEN children. Lack of everything really. NHS is on it's knees - I work forthe NHS and I don't think it will survive another 10 years.

I'm overseas but in Switzerland. Would you consider moving closer to the UK but not the UK? We have a similar debate in our house but find every time we go home we love being able to see family & friends but after a week find the UK quite depressing - nothing works - infrastructure, services, healthcare is terrifying. Although these things will depend upon where you live in the UK. But we feel fortunate we can fly back frequently and family can visit as its not far at all. Could you visit for a month during holidays as a trial to see how you find it? My parents are in their late 70s too and I worry about them all the time but they are like your parents, insist we stay where we are for a better life. I know if my parents weren't at home I'm not sure I'd want to be there. You will need to weigh it all up - what's important to you. It's not easy being an expat, are there groups you can join to meet others more easily or move elsewhere in NZ.

I don't know. he is planning on doing a PhD abroad and hoping that might lead to offers of work which come with a work permit. It's quite a niche research field. But who knows?

I think the violence/crime comment coudl just merely reflect different areas. I live north west and wouldn't say it I've noticed this as such.
I often say that the quality of life here is a struggle predominantly due to the weather. This last summer was a complete and utter wash out.
But for me I totally hear your comments about wanting to share some to your life with your parents. That for me would be the deal breaker. Imagine the lovely years you could have with them. And if it didn't feel like home again you could always relocate in the future. One thing we can do is change our lives in the future but we can't go back in time to change them then.
If your heart is telling you that you want to come home, then do it.

A few questions for you (I’m in the U.K. but from an EU country)

1- how well do you follow the news in general fir the U.K.? By that I mean the general politics, the economy etc….
On an economic pov, the U.K. is struggling a lot following brexit. How quickly it will bounce back is still uncertain but it doesn’t seem to get better. How would it compare to NZ?
plus poverty, nhs disappearing, schools falling apart etc etc….

2- do you still have friends in the U.K.? I found that with time, friendships disappear and you might well come back to somewhere with no friends, looser family links because everyone has moved on whilst you were away. And making new friendships as an adult is hard, even in your home country.

3- how much will you miss your sister?

4- from personal experience, after such a long time abroad, you won’t be coming back ‘home’. The country you left has changed a lot. It won’t be ‘home’ anymore. Youve changed a lot and will have (slightly?) different values/references which will some stuff very grating when before they sounded totally normal. It will take time for you to adjust, longer than you anticipate tbh. I’d think of it as moving to another country (or at least that’s it felt to me when I did that)

The NHS is a disaster but aside from that I would do it.

Norfolk is a wonderful place and you could well find life more affordable than NZ. Plus you will all have access to relatively inexpensive travel to Europe which is a huge bonus.

Personally I think the community connections are better generally in the UK than NZ.

@TailorSwiftwouldworktoo - we denigrate it for very good reason. My DC have a great life. We are comfortably off, they had a superb private education, got first class degrees from top 10 UK unis. But it's not all about me me me. Millions of people in UK are absolutely broke, despite both parents working, struggling with childcare costs, rental in badly-repaired buildings, overpriced or non-existent transport systems. Schools and hospitals are failing. There is no social housing. Just because our own little families will probably be OK doesn't mean we shouldn't look critically and honestly at what this amoral government has done to the country and its people.

I suspect those who think their local health service is ok don't have major health problems, and haven't been to A&E recently. Health is a shit show. Don't get ill.

What a completely weird post

OP sounds perfectly articulate and genuine to me.