What is life really like in the UK?

[YellowEyePenguin]

I apologize in advance for the long post! But I would really like to get some opinions from people.

My British husband and I (also British) are currently living in Dunedin, New Zealand, with our two daughters, ages 6 and 8. We've been in NZ for 15 years now and are really considering moving home to the UK. We never intended to stay in NZ but, long story short, accidentally got swept along with life and are still here. On the whole life is pretty OK. We're very happily married and our kids are at a wonderful school. We're also really lucky that my sister and her family live in the same city. However, we just pine for home. We're both very close to our families but find, because of the time difference, it's incredibly hard to keep in touch as much as we'd like, and our parents are now in their mid seventies. I feel scared at the thought of missing out on their last decade or so. And wish my children could have a relationship with them.

On top of that we feel like it's so hard to make any connections here. We love our house and the wildlife and coastline. But we have very few friends and so most of our time is spent as a little unit of four. We're also increasingly frustrated by the enormous cost of living and the fact that we'll never be able to afford to improve our house (for example, double glazing would cost $70,000 and so we're forced to constantly battle the mould and the condensation). We can't afford to explore the rest of NZ and so are confined to our small, geographically isolated, city. Any money we do have goes into a separate account used for trips to visit home. And we're miserable at the thought of growing old here.

The issue is that we are trying to decide what to do for the best; particularly for our girls' sakes. Both of our parents are really concerned that we want to return to the UK and they believe that NZ offers a better life for them. Both sets of parents have mentioned that the UK doesn't feel as safe anymore, with increasing violence and aggression since Covid. And that there is a general feeling of despondency in the country.

We don't feel that NZ is the utopia that a lot of our family seem to think is. It has its own political, economical and social problems. But we're really trying to gauge whether our parents' concerns are true. We know the country will be different to when we last lived there and expect to have dissatisfaction with various things, but hope that being close to family again, and the countryside etc will outweigh it.

Id love to hear how you all feel the situation in the UK is at the moment. And I do know that it is entirely subjective and will depend on where you are, your income, your relationships and so on. I'm just going round and round with the looming decisions, especially as I would want to move relatively soon, while my daughters are still young.

We're hoping to relocate to Norfolk.

Editing to add that my major concern is the children. They are both very sensitive and find change challenging. In some ways i feel like life could be better for them in the UK, but I worry that they might be really impacted by the upheaval. Also, their school is just amazing, very nurturing and supportive and I would be so sad to leave it.

I don't recognise most of the descriptions of life in the UK. Mumsnet users seem to generally be very critical of the UK.
Ok my husband and I are both professionals with decent salaries, but then so are you and your husband so it makes sense to take advice from people who are likely to have similar household incomes. We also live in a much more expensive area than Norfolk and still manage well.
I have only ever witnessed a crime once or twice on my life, other than marijuana I have never walked past people taking drugs in the street, the only antisocial behaviour I see is graffiti.
I have a child and was generally well supported when I gave birth, whenever my child is ill I have been given a doctor's appointment the same day I enquired. We had to have one trip to paediatric A&E and we were triaged within half an hour and seen and sorted within the next hour.
We're happy, our friends are happy, our families are happy. There are lots of nice things to do with our child in the area, lots of nice countryside nearby. We usually choose to holiday in the UK too!
Maybe I live in a bubble and I'm being tone deaf but I did think you needed at least one positive answer to balance out all the negative ones!

Just to balance out some of the more negative posts on this thread:
I live in a similar-sized city to Norwich and life is good. The people where I live are friendly and cheerful. My DC is doing well in a very mixed comprehsive. I've been to A and E twice in the last year and it was fine. Yes the CoL crisis has impacted me, but it sounds like that is happening in NZ too. I can go to Aldi and buy affordable, fresh food. There are loads of gorgeous places to go on holiday, and you can have a fantastic time camping near a world class beach for not very much money. There are loads of opportunities to do interesting stuff, from cultural events to volunteering.

Of course there are loads of problems too, but as the OP points out, everywhere has its problems. I grew up in a European country, lived in another one, and have family in a third and they all have their pros and cons.

My impression is that the UK is becoming divided into glass half full and glass half empty people. I work with lots of glass half empty people who make themselves miserable about Brexit, climate change, Covid, the news etc. but do nothing to make a positive change. I don't think WFH has helped as it seems to have made a lot of people quite passive and closed off. I think the secret is to seek out the glass half full people who in my experience are both more fun and more likely to be doing things to move things in a positive direction.

The rental market is v bad so if you are serious about moving back I would try to find a way to buy.

I can only talk foir myself but I love living here. We're lucky enough to live in a lovely area and be comfortably off (not wealthy but comfortable). Obviously life is very different in the UK if you live in poverty, as many people do.
Everything's good for us. We have very good state schools nearby. We've all had health issues over the last few years which have been dealt with quickly and efficiently. I hear of people waiting weeks for doctors appointments but we've always managed to get same day appointments when needed. I genuinely can't think of anything to complain about.
However, when I read of nurses and teachers using food banks and people with cancer not getting g treatment quickly enough I realise there are very real issues here.
From my experience everything works well and it's a beautiful country.

While living in NZ, I met so many people with similar stories to yours. Essentually, some of them are caught in a kind of poverty trap living in poor quality housing with elderly parents flying out to visit them several times each year from the UK. Some of them have since returned to the UK, others have moved to Australia while some have committed to sticking it out. Our experience of the healthcare system in NZ (both as HCP and patient) was that it was extremely poor at the time. We were very lucky to be able to afford to travel and pay for treatment elsewhere.

We're high earners and have a quality of life far superior to what we experienced in the US, NZ or Australia - however, we understand that this isn't the case for everyone. Living in other countries has made me appreciate what is amazing about the UK and this is the country where we will likely spend the rest of our lives, although we still have property elsewhere. We live in a very low crime rural area in a large, energy efficient detached home with lots of outdoor space, close to beaches and mountains but also with a great rail link to London. We both work part time so have lots of time to enjoy a relaxed and stress free lifestyle.

As per my previous post, we have had 2 health emergencies in the past 8 weeks or so. One was an overnight visit to A&E for a full battery of tests that resolved the issue straight away, the other unrelated issue was rapidly resolved with emergency surgery within 48hrs of first contact with HCP.

It's very variable depending on where you live.
I live in a nice village in central Scotland. The only thing that has deteriorated here really is the bus service, oh and the Fish and Chip and local hotel closed down ( but have been put to other uses) People like to moan but honestly if you choose your location carefully you'll be fine.
We have a lot of the things people move to New Zealand for, like access to countryside and beaches and sporting activities. The weather is even warmer than it used to be.

We’re in a similar situation, OP. We’ve recently decided to move to the US to be closer to family - in spite of Trump, gun crime, thr US health system, etc - because life in the UK has ceased to be workable for us on many levels.

We will be financially better off where we’re headed in the US because of pay relative to cost of living, and my job will give us comprehensive health insurance, which means I can actually count on being able to see a doctor if needed. This has not been possible with the NHS for many years. We’ll also have access to mental health services for our ND child, which has been impossible in the UK.

And the weather will be so much better and we won’t languish with low vitamin D all the time.

There is a lot we will miss about the UK, but emigrating has come to feel like the only way we can keep our family afloat.

Unfortunately the prevailing right wing economic dogma which has been unchallenged since 1979 has destroyed much of what was once good in the country: decent public services, friendly and caring communities, decent schooling.

The Blair years seemed good by contrast to what came before and after as there was moderate reinvestment in the real economy (infrastructure, transport, schools, housing, wages) - even though the ideology wasn’t all that different, it was balanced to an extent by a recognition that a government needs to spend and invest in the public sphere. But that’s all been undone since 2010 and the Tories have the country on its knees - mostly by design.

To top it all off, the leader of the opposition, who will be riding to the rescue this time next year, would have fit comfortably into David Cameron’s cabinet. If you’re on a low to mid income, I expect the UK now offers one of the worst standards of living, all told, in Europe.

All countries have their pros and cons, but the time you could have with your parents would clinch it for me. Your parents are getting older and being close to them as they age makes an enormous difference. I moved closer to my parents when they were in their seventies, still too far to be ideal but much closer in an emergency, of which there were many as they got older. After my Dad died my Mum moved much closer to me, and was eventually in a care home nearby as she needed round the clock care. It meant my dc and I had so much more time with her in particular. My dc have strong memories of her and I am so glad that I saw her multiple times a week in her final years. In the end those connections to the people who love you, and who you love, are the most important thing. Time with Grandparents who love them is great for children, it gives them a sense of where they come from, their own family culture and the wider culture of place.
I haven't been to NZ so I can’t compare the two places, but I really like Britain. I like our humour , I like the climate. We did mull over moving abroad when our dc were very small, mainly just to experience a different place and culture, but in the end decided not to, I didn’t want to be so far away from my parents, and I wanted my dc to be immersed in their own culture.
I would do your research on specific schools in the area of Norfolk you are thinking of, and work out if you could afford a house there if you rent out your NZ house.
I would do it soon though, your dc are at an age when moving won’t be too tricky, it gets harder as they get older.

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2022&region=150

17th out of 31. Above France, Ireland and others. Not brilliant but not the worst either. Let’s be realistic.

I think asking on social media (including mumsnet) is a bad idea - you'll get responses full of people with their own agenda/vendetta against various parts of the UK (policing, NHS, COL, schools etc) or the UK in general. Grass is always greener and all that.

Where I live (not in Norfolk): schools are excellent (States are 'ofsted outstanding') and there are v. good private schools, doctors see patients quickly (can get an appointment in a week easily and more urgently if it is urgent), hospitals aren't overwhelmed including A&E and there's very low crime. But, if you go twenty minutes down the road the schools are mostly subject to some sort of special measures and there's high crime.

Norfolk is lovely and IMO if would be lovely for your kids to get to know their grandparents and for you to spend time with your parents given their age! If you dread the thought of growing old in NZ then it's time to come home

I think you need to consider schooling as a bigger factor in your decision making.

I moved to NZ 10 years ago and have experienced schools and universities in both countries with 3 kids. The educational ethos is SO different in NZ compared with the UK, unpressured, not exam focused, broader for longer, more concerned about non-academic skills. Not to say the NZ is better (from an standards perspective it's definitely lower), but it's really worth considering which educational environment will suit your own children better. Even more important if they're in a good school now with good high schools to move on to.

I think, as a fellow immigrant,that there are trade offs wherever you are, and there will be certain stages of life (and for me certain times of the year!) where you question the decisions that you've made.

Go for it OP but keep the house back in NZ and rent it out initially. It sounds like you will find jobs easily, have family here and it will be a great cultural experience for the DC even if you go back eventually. NZ to Norfolk is a good choice as in many ways, they are quite similar (outdoorsy etc).

I have friends and family all over the world. To be honest, everyone is complaining about COL post Covid and a bit jaded. It was far more traumatic than most people care to admit. The trauma is not yet properly acknowledged in the public consciousness - books, films etc. It was basically a WW2 style event and has not sunk in properly yet.

There is ton of political infighting in UK at the moment post Covid and Brexit. There will most likely be a party change but things will remain pretty much the same in the short term. Government does not have as much influence/power as it used to.

If you have loved ones close by and some money and good jobs, you will be absolutely fine. It won’t be perfect but if you choose the right community for your family, a place where you fit in and meet like minded people, you will be happy.

I'm happy in the UK.
It varies so so much depending on area though. My friend lives near Northwich and her dd is experiencing a very different culture fuelled by negative peer pressure and social media at her school than mine are in our more rural area.
My sister lives in Oz and is happy there, has made some friends but struggles emotionally at times with distance from friends and family. Hey life is not a paradise compared to mine. She has different problems that's all.

For me the social isolation you describe would be a big factor because I'm a sociable person.
The age of your parents too... so I think you need to work out what makes you happy, find out about the actual area you'd be going to and move if the balance is right... but whichever way you jump it will still be life's roller coaster with challenges and joys.
But if you're going to do it, get on with it because the older your kids are the more likely you'll have to choose between them and your own wishes as they build their lives where they are.

The biggest differences are whether you will earn enough to rise above the mess that are UK public services.

Where would you live and what would you do? It is getting much more expensive to have a decent standard of living.

And I second what @LuubyLuu - English state education is very academic these days. Expected standards are very high. Friends who came back from NZ with 2 DCs recently in late primary and mid secondary had quite a bit of catching up to do. However, their DCs are intelligent and academic and caught on pretty quickly in good schools here.

State education is not poor at all, it just varies massively. The same applies to the NHS. Bit of a lottery. Those in the know and privileged are fine.

Agree, state education is not poor, the schools aren't all crumbling and class sizes aren't all too big. That's not too say those problems don't exist because they do but it's a mixed picture over here.
My ds's state school has just split a class into two separate classes because 29 was too many to teach and now he's in a class of fifteen. He's delighted as the class is really good to learn in now.

Speaking as someone who lived abroad for a period of time I really get the need to come home and I did. Yes, I didn’t earn as much money, things were expensive, not as available as where I was but I’ve never regretted coming back. I spent more time with my parents and siblings plus reconnected with old friends. I never felt as if I belonged in my adopted country. There’s something very basic about being in your own country even with all its faults. There’s a basic understand of the culture for a start.

Yes, there a problems with CoL and Brexit and a rotten government but I hope those things will change and it’s not as if you are on your own with them. Spending the last years with your parents will give a lot to you and to your children in particular. Don’t underestimate the importance of this. I’m so grateful for the time with my family and the chance to support them in their old age.

I have friends who used to live in New Zealand with their two young children but came back a couple of years ago. Also, family who lived there quite a long time ago and I visited them a couple of times.

NZ is amazingly beautiful, great outdoor lifestyle compared to the UK, but it's difficult to understand the isolation if you haven't experienced it. My friend became quite depressed with being so far from her friends and family and I think struggled to settle into a community as well. She is a lot happier since the move back, even though they have much less living space and life is much tougher in some ways. The UK has its problems, yes, but it is well-connected and easy to access so many places, and my own view is that it offers much more in terms of educational and other opportunities to teens and young adults growing up.

I think that life has definitely got a lot worse here over the past decade or so, but the extent of this very much depends on your individual circumstances.

If you have enough money to buy a house with a small mortgage, and pay for private dentistry, physiotherapy, joint treatment, university costs etc, if your parents have enough assets to pay for care, if you and your children have good mental health and no significant disabilities, then life here can be pretty good.

But there is now a big divide between people who are a bit less comfortable than they used to be, and people who are absolutely struggling to get by, and that second group has plenty of people in it who you would not expect to find there. I'd consider myself to be in the first group and even then I'm very conscious of things like my children having a limited choice of university options because accomodation costs in some places are unaffordable.

At the moment nothing bloody works. Trains cancelled, schools shutting, public services a bit rubbish - all the stuff you expect when the Tories have been in a while.

I still feel broadly safe, though.

This. I'm not rich at all but I'm sometimes agog when I read posts on here about living in the UK. I don't recognise them at all.
Most experiences we have as a family are positive. Last time I went to AandE I was seen within 25 minutes and treated with kindness and respect. Our GP surgery provides excellent care and the receptionists are lovely. I very rarely see any anti-social behaviour except graffiti. Most retail workers are polite and many are delightful.
Apologies- I'm not trying to contradict anyone else, but my general experience here is pretty good.

I only left the uk a few years ago. But I notice the change since I left is remarkable.

(I'm putting on my hard hat for this one ) the things I really notice about going back ;

. Every moans , its so depressing. No-one seems happy and it's all seems bitchy

. TV. And press, its constant drip feeding of negativity

. Everyone is indoors except for an occasional sunny afternoon then you head to the beer garden along with people who drink too much and wasps

. Toxic work cultures. They work Everyone so hard for little reward

. Everyone is overweight and grey looking honestly .Everyone looks unwell

. The cost , its super expensive I have no idea how people can afford the train to go to work let alone heat their homes

. Nothing works, transport, health care, schools

. Traffic .... it's awful and so much roadrage

Obviously these are massive generalisations but it just seems to have deteriorated so quickly in the few years I have left. (Unless I didnt notice )

I don’t feel unsafe but I would say both education & healthcare are in a real, real mess at the moment.