What is life really like in the UK?

[YellowEyePenguin]

I apologize in advance for the long post! But I would really like to get some opinions from people.

My British husband and I (also British) are currently living in Dunedin, New Zealand, with our two daughters, ages 6 and 8. We've been in NZ for 15 years now and are really considering moving home to the UK. We never intended to stay in NZ but, long story short, accidentally got swept along with life and are still here. On the whole life is pretty OK. We're very happily married and our kids are at a wonderful school. We're also really lucky that my sister and her family live in the same city. However, we just pine for home. We're both very close to our families but find, because of the time difference, it's incredibly hard to keep in touch as much as we'd like, and our parents are now in their mid seventies. I feel scared at the thought of missing out on their last decade or so. And wish my children could have a relationship with them.

On top of that we feel like it's so hard to make any connections here. We love our house and the wildlife and coastline. But we have very few friends and so most of our time is spent as a little unit of four. We're also increasingly frustrated by the enormous cost of living and the fact that we'll never be able to afford to improve our house (for example, double glazing would cost $70,000 and so we're forced to constantly battle the mould and the condensation). We can't afford to explore the rest of NZ and so are confined to our small, geographically isolated, city. Any money we do have goes into a separate account used for trips to visit home. And we're miserable at the thought of growing old here.

The issue is that we are trying to decide what to do for the best; particularly for our girls' sakes. Both of our parents are really concerned that we want to return to the UK and they believe that NZ offers a better life for them. Both sets of parents have mentioned that the UK doesn't feel as safe anymore, with increasing violence and aggression since Covid. And that there is a general feeling of despondency in the country.

We don't feel that NZ is the utopia that a lot of our family seem to think is. It has its own political, economical and social problems. But we're really trying to gauge whether our parents' concerns are true. We know the country will be different to when we last lived there and expect to have dissatisfaction with various things, but hope that being close to family again, and the countryside etc will outweigh it.

Id love to hear how you all feel the situation in the UK is at the moment. And I do know that it is entirely subjective and will depend on where you are, your income, your relationships and so on. I'm just going round and round with the looming decisions, especially as I would want to move relatively soon, while my daughters are still young.

We're hoping to relocate to Norfolk.

Editing to add that my major concern is the children. They are both very sensitive and find change challenging. In some ways i feel like life could be better for them in the UK, but I worry that they might be really impacted by the upheaval. Also, their school is just amazing, very nurturing and supportive and I would be so sad to leave it.

I can't say I've noticed a feeling of being less safe since covid.

What I have noticed is a marked decrease in the quality and availability of public services after years of under funding. The NHS feels broken in many respects, for example waiting times for ambulances of hours. Schools are under enormous pressure , so much so that I'm glad my youngest is in his final year..

To be honest, your question is too general. You are going to get some people tell you Britain is a cesspit of crime with crap schools and NZ is a nirvana. Others will say the opposite.

They are both comparable in terms that they have infrastructure and services that many countries don't.

You need to make a decision based on your personal needs. Make a list under headings of housing , standard of living jobs, promimity to family, schools etc and then compare. It sounds like your financial situation and proximity to family would lean towards the UK, but maybe not schools. It certainly doesn't sound as though you have a great quality of life in NZ of you're opportunities are so limited.

I don't know whether anyone would describe our schools as nurturing.i get the impression that the NZ education system is less hot housey and exam focussed than the UK, but that could be BS. My comparison is London schools, which may be very different to Norfolk..

I suspect you won't get a straight answer as there will be pros and cons to each, rather than one country and ticks all the boxes.

It will be a big change but also a big adventure - go for it! The UK is an incredible country in terms of heritage, history, culture. It has close proximity to the incredible rich diversity of the rest of the European continent. If you can get jobs, and Somewhere to live then go for it. If your parents are 70-ish then you have another 10-15 good years left with them.

I'd reflect on the concerns of your family seriously, unfortunately. The UK currently has broken public services due to long term underfunding.

It breaks my heart to say this as I love the country.

Can you do some proper social policy comparisons - education spend, crime occurrence/detection rates, cost of living/wage expectations, social attitudes, healthcare provision, economic indicators?

I don't have knowledge of NZ to compare.

The fundamentals are still here, of course, and there is much still to love.

Do you have prospects of obtaining good, secure employment?

Will you be able to afford adequate housing?

Do you all have NZ citizenship, i.e. a way back if it doesn't work out?

I moved back to the UK several years ago, after 2 decades in California, and I absolutely love living in the UK.

Did you ask AI to write your post, out of interest?

In any case, that's a tough decision but ultimately if you want to return to the UK you should do this sooner than later due to your dc.

They might feel quite foreign and will have NZ accents, which will make them stand out in school at least for some time. Your sister would probably gutted if you left? Who else is in the UK apart from parents as having your sister nearby sounds great.

What's the situation with pension and the job market in the UK?

Ultimately you should come back but your dc will lose the home they know the friends they have and your sister's family.

Did you ask AI to write your post, out of interest?

???? Why do you ask this, @SpookyTrain ?

Britain is chaotic right now. The combination of Brexit, lockdowns and most crucially, years of amoral, feckless, useless government has driven the country into disfunction. NHS no longer fit for purpose, state schools deplorably underfunded, full of cheap nqts and falling apart buildins. Infrastructures gone: our local rail service - an essential commuter line into London, has been closed - totally not functioning, at least 50% of the times i've needed to use it this year due to strike action or broken trains or tracks.

House prices and rental costs are obscene - DS paying almost £1000 a month for a shared flat with no living space (bills on top) -Expect t least 50% of you income to go on housing then sky high utilities on top of this and food prices rising but salaries stagnant and many previous professions (eg uni lecturer) now casualised into zero hours contracts.

Was talking to DS last night. He's just finished uni and feels there's no point staying in Britain and that he'll need to go abroad to earn a living. We were trying to think where would be any better, though!

You really need to cost things out carefully. If you haven't got £33k for the double glazing, can you afford a period of uncertainty while resettling? How easily will you find jobs, and what will they pay? Where will you live in Norfolk, assuming you can sell your NZ house? Do you have NHS entitlement; pensions; can you make up your NI contributions?

As I understand it, the cost of living is better here but of course that's relative to what you can earn here. Infrastructure and public services have deteriorated badly since you left but still in the same ball-park as NZ; some things will be worse, some better.

It's a big undertaking. You're in a good position to get all the facts - financial, lifestyle and social/emotional - and weigh up what's best for your specific family. Good luck!

I moved home to raise my child in Norfolk. It is home but also offers so much to young families.

If you move back to be closer to your parents, won't you miss your sister?

Where in the UK would you move to?

I haven't noticed any increase in aggressive behaviour. There is a lot of negativity because of the lack of funding in public services, the NHS feeling under threat etc. The cost of living has risen enormously, I just can't believe the prices in supermarkets.
However I still feel happy here, I live in a little lefty bubble within a big city where it's very multicultural and everyone gets along. My kids are getting a good education and have lots of opportunities.
I suppose part of you decision would be around where you would want to live here and what quality of life you could afford. In terms of buying or renting a house, north or south will make an enormous difference.

Agree with others, it will be the CoL that will shock you more than safely/crime. We're lucky to have been given a home by pil. Rents in my area (not Norfolk but similar) are sky high. With council tax on top there is little left over for 2 working parent families I know. The trades are through the roof too so I'm sure double glazing costs are similar to NZ (but I have no personal knowledge). I lived 15 years out of the country and moved back for the reasons you gave 5 years ago. The relationship with GPs is golden and I don't regret it. The main negative differences are CoL and health services. On the upside there are more activity groups where we live now though my social group is no bigger (smaller if I'm honest). When I lived in rural Norfolk the community life was non existent but that might be location dependent. North Norfolk hospital is awful I believe. I expect Norwich is still a buzzing hive of activity though

Where in Norfolk are you thinking of and what jobs do you do? Your income level will make a huge difference. The culture here in Norfolk is very different to some other parts of the country so not all answers you see on this thread will apply.

Everyone will have different views, so its hard to paint one picture really.

We have recently left the UK, we lived in a nice borough of London, we don’t intend to move back, but we’re realistic and realise that could happen.

We had found even in a fairly wealthy area that access to good health care just wasn’t possible anymore, I have a lifelong life threatening condition, appropriate care just isn’t available even when you do see a doctor/end up in hospital. NHS dentists aren’t available with spaces in many many areas, so lots of us either pay privately or go without. Then we have strikes due to poor working conditions and stagnated wages within health care.

Schools like anywhere vary hugely depending on where you live, where we were primary schools were fantastic, but secondary options were awful if you had to rely on your nearest.

Things are more expensive, fuel, utilities, food etc. Obviouslt cheaper than NZ, but with lower wages it may end up costing similar amounts for a lot of things.

We found that racism has not just become worse, but we found that people were fairly happy and confident to be racist in public.

Travel is expensive here too, I have no idea how hotels, camp sites etc compare to the costs of them in NZ, but gone are the days of cheap package holidays.

Where we lived there were lots of great parks, theatres, museums, there was always something to do, often free, so you didn’t need to be bored or spend a lot of money on outings.

Practical things to think about.

What qualifications/experience do you have, will these still transfer over to the UK? Will you have a pensions short fall, or have you maintained your NI contributions? Can you afford to buy, or will you need to rent? Windows are what £30k, will it not cost around that to relocate? Do you children have NZ citizenship, or would the love be taking away their right to live where they grew up? What will you do for childcare?

Just remember, anywhere to return to after 15 years is not the same place, that place doesn’t exist anymore.

I live v near Cambridge and on one hand it’s a disaster and on another hand it’s a nice place to live. My DH had a medical emergency last week and went from first contact with a HCP to being home from emergency surgery in 48hrs. Cost us not a penny.

My kids are doing well in school, albeit school resources are stretched very thin. They have access to good extracurricular activities that we pay for. I live in a great community of welcoming and helpful people.

That said, infrastructure is shit, especially compared to Europe (we were on holiday in France recently which was amazing) and housing in the UK is expensive. Food here is considerably cheaper than France.

If I were moving back I’d go for a northern city or Northern Ireland for best bang for buck. But England isn’t all doom and gloom.

Thanks so much for all the replies so far. I feel emotional and a bit dejected reading them, as it does sound like life is tough back there at the moment. It's so hard to separate heart and head.

I'm a Teacher of the Deaf, fluent in sign language, so luckily very much in demand. And my husband is a structural engineer. His employer has hinted that he might be able to continue working in his current role, but from the UK. That's not yet definite however.

The children have dual citizenship. My husband does too. I'm in the process of applying for NZ citizenship so won't leave without it.

One important factor is what to do with our current house. We're reluctant to sell it as it's growing in value, and we're conscious that we might want to come back. But if we don't sell it then we will have less money to come back with, and I'm not sure how easy it will be to rent in the UK as I've heard there are difficulties at the moment.

To those that mention my sister, yes she will be devastated if we go :( And it breaks my heart to think about separating the cousins. I have another sister in the UK, and two brothers, and my closest friends who are like sisters to me. Plus I've got cousins and two aunties that I'm very close to. My sister and I are close (the one in NZ) but I've spent my life feeling like I need to look after her and suddenly feel like I might resent her if I stay for her. Its really complicated and too hard to explain here.

If we manage to move to Norfolk then we'd be close to Norwich.

Oh and @SpookyTrain no, my post wasn't written by AI!!! 🤣 I'm intrigued as to why you thought so!

There was a thread not so long ago about someone in your situation (except she was in Aus) and she had moved back and really regretted it. Her parents were older too and did not establish the bond she had hoped with her dc. Other people said they had regretted moving back to UK too. I would reiterate:
-NHS is on its knees. It can take weeks for me even to get through to GP surgery by phone
-Forget about an NHS dentist. I know many people now who have put their dc on a private plan too
-school places few and far between
-rental costs extortionate and very conpetitive

I don't think it's any more violent , expensive etc than it has ever been, and no more than anywhere else in western Europe. I can't comment on NZ, as never been. People just get on with their lives in the same way they always have done. Norfolk will certainly be very quiet, and possibly a bit insular (?), but that may suit you.
And, ince your children are adults, they can choose to live anywhere in the world so you're not trying them to one country for the duration.

I am following as i occasionally think to return to the UK (not in NZ though).

@TotalOverhaul will your DS be able to get a work permit? In EU at least the salary minimum is currently 58k (I’ve discovered that even with STEM most governments will reject applications for lower salaries as allowed under visa requirements). Brexit is a screw-up.

sorry derailing, @YellowEyePenguin it sounds like you’ll get work very easily but maybe not as close to your parents as you wish. The time is now. Pp above states very confidently that you’ll have 10-15 years with them. That just isn’t necessarily true just easy to say. Don’t have regrets!

And, if it's relevant, I have always said that I could never emigrate Down Under because I would really miss being so close to all the culture, history and diversity of Europe. In spite of political changes, Europe is still so accessible from the UK.

If you can afford to move to a nice part of Norfolk with nice schools and yourself and husband earn enough not to be too affected by the cost of living crisis then I'd say why not.
However, just be aware that if you ever need A&E the waiting times are horrendous, same with most routine hospital appointments.
I don't know what Norwich is like but most towns now have a contingency of ne'er do wells.
My son has been mugged a few times but we live in London so not sure if Norwich would feel safer.

I know the grass is not always greener but I'd love to live in a country where for three quarters of the year it's dark and damp and miserable. From October onwards the day finishes at 4:00pm because it's dark by then.

Could you move within NZ?

I don't know how the two compare just now, but are your schools struggling with potential collapsing buildings, large class sizes, severe under funding? Is your health system collapsing, with even cancer referrals taking longer? How long is your A&E wait? Here, people are waiting 12 hours+ even when very unwell. Prices are going up noticeably, with every shop- this has slowed slightly, but it's depressing. Even people who were previously comfy are struggling with bills, especially for this upcoming winter. I have a teen, and it's looking much bleaker for them than when I was a teen.

Is it like that in New Zealand?

Did you ask AI to write your post, out of interest?

Oh for pete's sake just report it if you have concerns.

OP - some Brits love to denigrate the UK. Millions of us have a great quality of life here and our children/teens/young adults are thriving.

Hmm. I don’t think I’d come back to the uk if I had a good enough situation somewhere else. Cost of living has gone up massively - like, noticeably. It also feels a little… bleaker? It’s largely because we’ve had the Tories for too long (brexit then the disaster they made of covid, and all the other messes they made).

Because of the lack of rules around buying properties from abroad in the uk, London house prices are very high, which has a knock on effect. (The pound is low so investors from abroad are buying up here.) And it’s harder to become a landlord, so rent is also very expensive.

NHS is on its knees. Tories again.

I often think I’d be doing my kids a favour if we emigrated somewhere else.

If you’re unhappy in NZ, is there another part of NZ you can move to? Or another country that’s similar? Canada?