GF: Love her or hate her? the Great Debate. Please leave all weapons at the door and NO stomping off, offended. OK?

[SoupDragon]

OK, to avoid the Great Debate cluttering up other threads where pro-GF mums are asking for help, I've started this one. It may have been done before...

If you read another thread and have nothing helpful but want to share your GF feelings, do it here!

I guess it could get heated here so please don't get offended and storm off in a huff as has happened elsewhere with other contentious issues - just avoid this thread

OK, for what it's worth, I have no problems with GF except for the fact that all babies are different so her rigid routine may not fit in with your baby. You should maybe see her routines as flexible - half an hour or an hour either way isn't going to make much difference is it? And I think that before 6 weeks is way too young to be messing with feeding routines, especially if you're breastfeeding. It can mess up your supply in theose important first weeks and I think this is why breastfeeding counsellors seem to hate her so much.

Right, I'm off to duck beneaththe parapet and let you get on with it!

Oh Soupdragon - what have you started?
I love GF - but still see her routines as flexible. All the way through with DD I fed at Gina's times ie every 3 hours in first few weeks, and I fed whenever dd wanted more, she soon stopped asking at other tmes. A friend (also following GF) and I used to refer to these as our sneaked feeds. Mt supply is fine, I always had loads of milk, and even now I am back at work I can express of an extra 14 oz after the am feed and during the evening. I really do believe that this was down to GF insistence on expressing in the early days.

But somebody will disagree - so let battle commence

GF turned a good friend of mine into a mummy dictator - poor baby had such a rigid routine that if anything happened to disturb this both mummy and baby freaked. Ok so this is an extreme case but the routines are so inflexible. On said friend's early advice I follwed the book but soon found it to be a complete pain...
Let battle continue

Interesting way to start a thread SoupDragon. Unfortunately I agree with most of what you have written and so am unable to argue against it.

Until I started on Mumsnet I had never heard of GF and so didn't follow her. No-one mentioned routines to me pre-DS and I think some sort of balance that way would have been helpful. Also no-one mentioned that I could try and breastfeed DS before he actually cried which might have been helpful. We gradually got into a routine by me doing things like feeding DS before we went out somewhere (if it was only a couple of hours)or before a long journey and realising that this worked.

Now at 20 months DS has a loose routine. I have borrowed Gina's second book (contented baby to confident child) from the library. So far the best advice has been to not give any snacks 2 hours before meals. DS has eaten really well ever since with a lot less food on the floor. Glad I haen't bought the book though because the first hefty chunk is about babies (ie what the first book is supposed to be about) so IMO not helpful.

I hate GF, I believe in mothering my babies by instinct not by some rigid dictators' instructions :-) I read her book - in the name of research you understand! - and it made me spit with rage ... I'm a thinking human being, having a baby doesn't change the fact that I can judge when I need to get up and get dressed etc. and my babies are to be held and cuddled and fed when they want to be - I didn't have them to timetable them to anyone elses convenience.

Are there any breastfeeding counsellors out there who 100% recommend GFs' routine?

Incidentally I burnt my copy ... with my flameproof jacket on of course ;-)

Ooh, very tame so far. I might drop off to sleep at this rate.

Another fan here - I love GF too !! Of course I didn't follow it second by second (& I think is where people come unstuck?) - but her general common sense attitude - most importantly - allowing your child to learn to get to sleep on his/her own - is what I believe in. My DS is 19 months now & a fantastic sleeper - it may be coincidence, but he happily goes to bed at 7pm - even if he's not tired he 'plays' by himself, sleeps till 7am - plays by himself until DH or I go in (sometimes up to an hour later if we want a lie in!!) and also has a three hour nap after lunch. Also, eats very well; and I get lots of comments from non biased friends etc about what a very cheerful & contented boy he is.

I'm very happy with GF !

I'm not going to spice this up either
I mixed & matched bits of Gina, bits of my own - but always with most regard to my daughter's individual temperament and needs. the book does help I think if you're a first time mum without an extended family eg making you get dressed in the morning (in the loosest sense of the word eg 11.30am!). but if you're a bit anal and regimented anyway, I can imagine it sending you/your child into a spiral of clockwatching, like Grommit says.

I am a first time mum without an extended family and with no knowledge about babies so I followed Gina. It generally worked for me although looking back I wouldn't have been so obsessed with it but at the time that is what I needed. I think with number 2 I would be more willing to adapt it as I have the experience and confidence now.

Can I just note that I am still breastfeeding with ds at 9 months old and didn't express like Gina says (smack my wrist!;-) )and didn't have a problem BUT I do appreciate that I have been lucky with having very productive breasts!

Well - I love GF and I find the assertion that pro-GF mums do not use their mothering instincts frankly offensive !

DD is my first child and I have no family close by, no friends with babies and my DD was the very first baby I had even held (at 33 !)- so I was seriously looking for an instruction manual ! GF was great for me - maybe she's not great for all you super-mums out there who instinctively know what to do - you earth-mother-goddesses you ! - But for cr**y old me she was a lifeline.

Once I got the hang of the mothering thing of course I adapted GF a bit here and there - and DD is a mega contented 2 year old - we're happy with what we did and I'd definitely do it again this way.

Earth mother I'm not - Good enough mother I am !

Hi, well not sure I should be joining this debate as am still incubating my bump but a) who is GF and b) what does dd or ds stand for? This is my first time here in case you hadn't guessed!

Sam29, congratulations on your 'bump' and welcome to Mumsnet.
DD stands for darling daughter and DS stands for darling son.
GF is Gina Ford who has written a book called The Contented Little Baby Book which some people love and some people abhor (if I were you I'd get hold of a copy and make your own decision).
Personally, I'm a fan and I think that Scatterbrain hit the nail on the head. When we arrived home from hospital with our new born son I had plenty of maternal instincts but we still benifited from having structured advise. To start with I think we followed it to the letter but once we got relaxed and our instincts got stronger then we adapted the routines to suit our son. Like lots of GF children, our 16 month old DS is now a good sleeper, a great eater and generally a happy very lovable child.

dd is dear daughter - ds dear son - just the slightly odd abbreviations we use here - and there are plenty more - dh dp etc etc!
GF is Gina Ford, author of Contented Little baby book and BIG proponent of routines!
I thought she was the Margaret Thatcher of childcare ie barking mad) before I read her book ( on reputation) but soon changed my mind when her promises all came true for me!!
I agree that when people switch thier own brains off there can be problems - but overall I've nothing but praise for her...

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Scatterbrain said "Well - I love GF and I find the assertion that pro-GF mums do not use their mothering instincts frankly offensive"

I guess that was in response to my post? I honestly don't see how anyone can follow GF and use their mothering instincts?!!? Please enlighten me ... If my babies sleep my instinct is that they need to sleep, if my babies need to be cuddled to sleep then my instinct is to cuddle them, if my babies need to feed for comfort then I comfort them ... how can any of this be done by the clock?

Interesting ... I was a teenager when I had my first baby and I held a baby for the first time when I was 6mths pregnant so had little knowledge of babies, I had no family support as they were so ashamed of me getting pregnant - I wasn't ashamed BTW I was proud :-)

I'm no superwoman but I've always hated being told what to do and I guess I was out to prove something ... I mothered him by what felt right to me ignoring most of the well intentioned advice (all that rod for your own back cr*p) and as he's now all growed up I can say with pride that I did a pretty good job.

Incidentally on the sleeping thing, he slept through the night from a few weeks old ... my other children vary in their sleeping habits but all have been mothered in a similar way - we are all different and so are our children. I treasure their differences, I don't try and mould them to be the same, to live their or my life being dictated by a 'routine'. Selfishly I would love my littlest to sleep through the night but I'm not going to try and train her - whose comfort would that be for? ... I will instinctually comfort her ...

instinctually?

Like someone else here, I came home with DS1, aged 34, and had never held a baby in my life before, with no family or friends to turn to. I pretty much cried my way through the first three months of ds1's life - couldn't understand what my baby wanted or why he seemed to breastfeed constantly, and for the first time ever I had to have physiotherapy for back problems caused by rocking my son to sleep 3 or four times a night every night for about 8 months.
I vowed that if we had another baby I would not make the same mistakes, and I consulted various friends/books/ (and of course, Mumsnet) for advice and opinions - incl., of course Gina Ford's CLB book.
DS2 is now 10 weeks old, and at 7pm tonight we bathed and fed him and tucked him up into bed, where he gave a few half-hearted cries and promptly fell asleep. OK, so he's not sleeping through the night yet, but I have no problems with a middle of the night feed, especially when I can just put him back in his cot and he'll drift back to sleep on his own. I too hate GF's style of writing, and wouldn't dream of having toast at 8 am just because she says to, but what I HAVE found immensely helpful is her general timeframe to the routines. For example, I would never have imagined that a baby would need another nap 1 1/2 hours after waking up in the morning? Or that there might be any 'other way' rather than breastfeeding to sleep (which is all I ever did with DS1). I never thought I'd say this, but although I loathe her style and attitude, I DO think the damned woman knows a thing or two, and I now recommend the book to friends...

Wow! a 34 y.o. newborn!

Had a love affair with Gina
In the back of my cortina
A seasoned up hyena
Could not've been more obscener...

Thanks oh late great Ian Dury.

Aaargh... that's sleep deprivation for you (and lack of proof-reading...)Wouldn't fancy giving birth to a 34 yr old (mind if it was a boy, they're still babies at that age too...)

Oooh - ScummyMummy, you ARE mean......

I'm not a disciple, but can see how she could be a godsend to those who do not have others to turn to for advice and who feel the need to be "told" what to do first time around. Coming home with your brand new baby has got to be one of the scariest things you can do - suddenly you are responsible for this other life and I for one was petrified that I was going to xxxx it up. I actually said to my mum "what am I going to do, I can't kill him" (wasn't planning infanticide - just was overwhelmed at the idea of being responsible for my ds' wellbeing). The one person who I know who did follow her routines swears by them - and her daughter is a scream. Really funny, confident little thing with a great manner about her. Her mum admits that she felt so "out of control" at first that she needed a strict routine as a lifeline. (In contrast my life was so out of control I could see no point in trying to do anything about it!)Yes, it did mean that she had to bomb home to put her daughter to sleep when we were all just about to sit down to lunch, but it worked for her.

Can I get down off this fence now? It's xxxxxx uncomfortable.

sorry, honeybunch! (third glass of wine has gone to my head)

arrgh! willow posted before me! The honeybunch in question is you, Mo2.

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