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.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

483 replies

AuntieDoris · 18/10/2011 18:00

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

OP posts:
LissieLovettsDeliciousMeatPies · 19/10/2011 20:00

jodie, I would hope that you have received a huge amount of support and well wishes from posters on the ttc boards. because of the feeling of solidarity and relationships that have been built up there.

not because we are playing fertility top trumps.

yes, I wish you every luck. just as I wish coldsancerre every luck (great news today btw) just as I wish everyone else luck whether they have been ttc for 6m or 6y, whether they ae ttc their first or their sixth. because infertility is shit.

hipsdontlie · 19/10/2011 20:02

Jodie - I have never been through your situation but I have friends who have never had kids and friends who are trying for their second.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind who is suffering the most. My life would be very empty without any kids, it would be just less fulfilling if I only had one.

I'm sorry for anyone TTC but I understand where Jody and the OP are coming from and it must be absolute hell.

working9while5 · 19/10/2011 20:03

Sorry, but lots of people have wished the OP luck and hoped that she has a child of her own. People are simply saying it is not helpful to state that one experience is more painful than another if you haven't experienced both. I am very sorry you are suffering too Jodie but what you are saying makes no sense - you are surprised at women's cruelty to the infertile as long as they haven't had a child. So women like my cousin who had 13 miscarriages in 7 years and then had a living child cease to be allowed to express sincere pain when they can't have another child because surely, they're only having the second one for superficial reasons eg they can use lovely baby things again?
There's no pain for my cousin who came from a family of 6 because her dream is gone, just because she is a step closer to it than she was three years ago? I am sure there are safe forums where all of this anguish can be expressed without it being cruel to others but I see cruelty in what you write too Jodie.

StoneSoup · 19/10/2011 20:03

I don't know if never having a child is any worse than, say, having one child and then having recurrent miscarriages? That's what I mean. Who measures what is worse? Who has the right to? Hmm

I feel for anyone who is struggling to conceive their first child. I have never been in that situation but my heart absolutely aches for some friends who are going through it. However, I really can't see how comparing your pain to others pain makes your pain any different and I refuse to accept that it is a healthy way forward.

Northernlurker · 19/10/2011 20:04

For what feels like the five hundreth time - pain felt cannot be measured on a curve. It is unfair and unhelpful to apply a ranking to this issue because it puts up walls where they should be none.

OP - I don't think you're a bad person, of course not. I think this is a very, very bad thread though and the anonymity of the forum does not protect those reading it. They don't know your RL but they know you on here and they know what you think of them and that you wouldn't say it in RL. Can you manage what that does to a person's head?

Yes I am asking you OP and Jodie and everybody else posting here to think about other people's feelings because they SHOULD be thinking about yours in another context and if they aren't that's wrong - absolutely and 100% wrong - but nothing gets made right by this anger on this thread.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 19/10/2011 20:06

YANBU

And I think with every child additional child your case becomes stronger.

Never getting to be pregnant, to carry a baby, or become a parent is obviously far more devastating than not having multiple children.

I have a lot of sympathy for people struggling to conceive a second - most people imagine having more than one child, and accepting that your child will never have a sibling must be devastating.

I am struggling to conceive a third, and I wouldn't dream of comparing my pain to that of women who are hoping for a first or a second.

It's sad, and I have some bleak moments, but I have 2 lovely kids. The very worst that happens in terms of TTC is that I still have them.

The pressure, the terrible fear, is off.

I understand the reason why for purposes of all getting along we pretend that not being able to have a 5th is just as bad as having none at all. But that's bollocks, and we all know it.

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 20:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KittyFane · 19/10/2011 20:08

OP, you are not a failure, you are not unreasonable, your feelings aren't unnatural and you are more than entitled to feel the way you feel.
You haven't upset me, I haven't been able to conceive DC 2 but I remember all to well the feeling I had trying (for 2+ years) to conceive DC 1.
It's been 8 years now and DC2 is not going to happen now.
I remember my own feelings and hear my friend's pain that she can't conceive DD1 and it's heartbreaking.
YANBU

DidYouSmashHerShireHorses · 19/10/2011 20:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LissieLovettsDeliciousMeatPies · 19/10/2011 20:13

jodie, thats fucking awful, Im so angry for you! have you ever tried the hut? thats where I hide now from the conception boards. everyone there is in the same sort of boat and its a great place to be bitter and angry about everything.

I am sorry if my post was harsh, this thread has touched a nerve and tbh, I am not going to use the ttc/mc/IF boards again, and have emailed mnhq to ask for a temp ban because Im very upset at the amount of posters who feel this way and I feel like my pain has been devalued (admittedly, its a bad day, my 76th cycle has just finished with a bang - did I mention that we were ttc ds for over 3y too, but I digress) but try the hut (its in infertility, where else) its saved my sanity.

LissieLovettsDeliciousMeatPies · 19/10/2011 20:13

oops, and apologies for poor grammar.

ColdSancerre · 19/10/2011 20:14

Thanks Lissie, on the way home from the hospital I said to DP that I hope this means nobody ever sticks a camera through my cervix ever ever again.

Jodie I'm so sorry you sound in so much pain. As I said in my first post on the thread I hope that 2012 is your year just as it is for anyone suffering infertility or pregnancy loss. Good luck.

To take some of the flak off AD I'll post something controversial so everyone can post what a bitch I am. What pisses me off is those that refer to their difficulties in conceiving as hideous and lengthy when in fact it took the average time for their age group. Now that is annoying.

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ColdSancerre · 19/10/2011 20:15

Lissie don't ask for a temporary ban.

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 20:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LissieLovettsDeliciousMeatPies · 19/10/2011 20:18

of course you can (im not here either)

cold, heres hoping Grin whats next?

immortalbeloved · 19/10/2011 20:24

YANBU

I had typed up a long post, but I don't want to make things any worse, so I'll just say that I agree with shecutofftheirtails

Jodie I am so sorry for your pain, fwiw I don't think you have been out of line on this thread and I really truely wish you (and the OP and everyone else who knows the pain of infertility) luck, joy and happiness

iMemoo · 19/10/2011 20:24

SheCutOffTheirRails your last paragraph is bloody nasty!

I'm stunned by the nastiness on this thread. I've been on MN a long time and I've never seen anything like it. We should be supporting each other, but all I see is anger and bitterness.

working9while5 · 19/10/2011 20:26

Look I'm sorry, I'm sorry I posted at all, I don't want anyone in suffering to feel angry or aggrieved by a fucking internet forum thread when what's being discussed is so serious. We can only come at it from our own perspectives. I have seen my cousin go to hell and back... I have falled out with MIL about it because of her comments about how none of her early miscarriages "counted" or people in my family ragging on about how hard it was for them when she would say she longed for a child. Boo hoo etc. However, it did get worse when she struggled to have a second child because if she had no right to grieve not being able to have a child she certainly had no right to grieve when she had been "blessed" (after 7 years! Miscarriage after miscarriage! Invasive and soul-destroying procedures!) to have one child (when everyone else in the family was popping them out good-o).

She told me that when it started again, she felt even worse because she thought her body was healed and then there it was, letting her down again.. and she said before, when she grieved her "lost angels", they were a loss of a dream to her but now every early scan was a promise of a child like her daughter again and so she had learned to hope again but even more know what could come out of that clump of cells and so the bereavement was all the more keen.

My MIL once said to me "you should have three children because that way if one of them dies the other two will have eachother". That to me highlights the ridiculousness of comparing. Each child you have - and really, for many people, each pregnancy you carry - is separate and unique and not offset by anything else, the same way that it wouldn't be okay if your sibling died just because you had another. It is NOT about extra clothes or some wishy washy desire to fulfil some media stereotype that makes secondary infertility devastating and not something to belittle.. it is the desire for another child to love in their own right, a child that is every bit as irreplaceable as that first child. So not having THAT child to love can be as painful for some people as not having any, because that first child can't replace that second one, they are as separate as any other relationships in life.

Sorry if I have caused offence, I just don't think it is helpful to compare on the basis of what I have seen my cousin go through, and how it is different, yes, but pain no one should have to bear, either way. Good luck to any and all women who experience infertility in overcoming this and achieving what they most desire.

working9while5 · 19/10/2011 20:27

Fallen out, not falled out!

iMemoo · 19/10/2011 20:28

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Message deleted by Mumsnet.

iMemoo · 19/10/2011 20:38

Op, can I suggest you ask to get this thread pulled before other people read? I think enough damage has been done.

bialystockandbloom · 19/10/2011 20:40

YANBU.

projectbabyweight had it right when she said it's the difference between being a parent and not.

lissie, coldsancerre, jodie and all others in your situation, I wish you all the very very best of luck.

KittyFane · 19/10/2011 20:43

Thebestwitch People who have 1 child can call themselves a parent but they also know exactly what it is like bringing home a new baby and everything that goes with it and that they may not experience it again.
There lies the difference : experiencing it 'again' in contrast to 'ever'.

KittyFane · 19/10/2011 20:44

IMemoo. This thread doesn't need to be pulled IMO.