.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

[AuntieDoris]

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

I don't think my pain is worse than someone who can't have children, and no I wouldn't want to swap places but I do expect people to acknowledge my pain and not to refer to it as moaning or to get into some sort of sad competition regarding who feels the most pain or has the worst circumstances

There are people on this thread who's situation I wouldn't want to be in and im not just talking about the posters who don't have children.

It's precisely the willingness to put yourself in someone else's shoes that is at issue here.

It isn't impossible to try to imagine how bad things must be for someone else. Sure, you won't feel their pain, but you might at least get an idea of the enormity of their grief and be able to acknowledge it.

Your argument is entirely solipsistic - we can't know for sure how someone is feeling, so instead of trying to understand and accept when others are in a worse situation, we just insist that all pain is the same.

And you say this while claiming that it might be worse to have a child asking for a sibling, than to have no child at all.

Go and say that to an infertile woman with no children, see how she reacts. I'm angry on behalf of my infertile friends that you keep saying something so self-indulgent.

And remember, we're both experiencing that, so it must be the same for both of us.

I'm not sure who you're referring to but I have not once said that all pain is the same. I'm saying the opposite - that all pain is different. And everyone struggling to conceive their first won't feel the same and everyone struggling to conceive subsequent children won't feel the same. It is impossible to say that ttc conceive your first is always harder. Individual people cope differently and everyone has an individual tale regarding how long/how many losses they have suffered/individual circumstances.
I have said it is possible that some people suffering secondary infertility may question their decision to have kids. I stand by it that that is an emotion SOME may feel. I would no more go up to someone ttc their first in the street and say that than' I assume, you would approach someone ttc their second and tell them that they really should appreciate that there are others worse off.

I don't think anyone is insisting that levels of pain are the same shecutofftheirtails.. I'm just not sure what good it does to anyone comparing them.

I've had several miscarriages and my close friend has had a stillborn child. We supported each other through our losses. Not once have we had a conversation about who has the right to feel more upset. We are friends and we love each other. This thread is horrible, and I'd like to see it pulled.

I'm writing this on page 3 so may have missed some hugely insightful posts.

It took over 3 years ttc dd1, long hard painful years where I was desperate for a baby. We had always planned a big family so struggling and being told we would never conceive one child naturally, we both have seperate fertility issues which make us pretty incompatible, was horrible but at the same time we were happy enough to contemplate adoption so as vicious as it was there was a way out. By some fluke we fell pg naturally. My pregnancy ended in an emergency induction due to pre eclampsia

It took 18 months to ttc dd2 during which time I knew I couldn't go on to adopt, having had dd1 had taken that route from me,I know some do but it just wasn't an option for us anymore.this combined with the same if not stronger desperate longing as the first time and guilt, horrible guilt that I had a child and still wanted another, knowing friends still struggling and feeling worthless for pushing on for another. After a mc we managed to have dd2, cue another induction for pre eclampsia.

At this point we decided it was too dangerous to carry on for our big brood but fell pg accidentally, failed condom and failed morning after pill resulted in dd3 no pre eclampsia, no complications, felt incredibly lucky.

So 2 1/2 years down the road we have taken the decision for the second time since dd3 (after a mc last year) to try for that magic number 4 and do you know what? I'm scared, scared Of a mc, scared of pre eclampsia, scared of more infertility and yes feeling guilty again that we are pushing for number 4 when dear friends are feeling stuck ttc 1 or 2, the worst of it is I already felt like I should keep quiet about my fears and worries because of how lucky we have been and this thread confirms that to me.

I really wish you luck with ttc but the feelings people have are individual, for me secondary infertility brought with it mc and guilt and was far worse than the initial infertility

"I didn't struggle to conceive my second but I would have been devastated if I couldn't have given dd a brother or sister. "
did you have trouble with your first?

I think when you have a problem having afirst you are a bit less worried about things like providing a sibling because, having been through the struggle to have a baby in the first place you kind of don't want to go through all that stress again.

This thread is doing nothing but causing hurt all over MN and beyond.

Yes I was trying for my first for 3 years and had one ectopic pregnancy in that time so had to have a fallopian tube removed which I was told would reduce my fertility so not having a second was a real fear for me. I started ttc earlier than I would have because I assumed that if I did have another it would take years. It didn't as it happened it took 4 months so hopefully that can give some hope to people trying for number 2.
Although I quite understand that your point that when ttc conceive your first - problems you may have conceiving your 2nd or more are far away from the forefront of your mind.

And beyond. Yes.

boldfail.

Please stop posting on this thread. It's causing so much pain.

OP: was there for 9 miserable years and failed tc for second. Finally snapped during those 9 years in a family gathering when a much loved cousin pregnant with her second was - understandably given pre-natal fears - going on about how she was sure babe was going to be SN etc, and eventually I said something like " well, you're lucky to be pregnant and you'll love him/her and you've got the other one. Some of us can't even get there." Sudden horrid hush over the washing up. I regret hurting her but obviously my/our point of view had never occurred to them because very shortly we were invited to be godparents of another of the cousinry.

For me, personally, the 9 years ttc were far worse than the x years ttc afterwards but it will vary, I wonder especially if, like friends, you've mtc easily with 1 but the others don't come.

I came to the conclusion that reasonableness or not is not relevant. Coping with the misery is important, but part of that is accepting that irritations will occur - you've mentioned one I shared; I also felt like crying every time I saw a baby shop, I wanted to kill people who told me I was "a career girl and didn't want children" or asked me directly whether I didn't want children.

HTH

To get right down to the basics of the thread, the OP asked if she were being unreasonable to feel fed up. I don't think you are OP, they are your feelings, you can't help them and are entitled to have them.

But the people posting are also entitled to feel fed up about their own situation and have a moan or ask for support.

That doesn't mean they are comparing themselves to anyone else and saying they are feeling, better, worse or the same as anyone else.

It just means that they themselves have reached their own limit of what they can deal with and need to let it out, get some advice, hear some kind words.

I don't know why someone needing to do that has to turn into a debate about who is the bigger victim and feels the most pain.

FWIW, although I speak about my losses and want people to understand baby loss and it's effects, which never stop or go away, I don't actually want to make myself into the person others look at when they feel their own life is shit and then say "but at least I'm better off than her" or "she lost two babies but I lost three so my life is more shit than her life, lucky cow!"

I had imaged that most people felt the same way until I saw all this arguing. We all have good and bad things in our lives that other people may envy. They may not be equal things but we all have the right to complain about something once in awhile and ask for support without all this fighting about who has the bigger right to feel pain about something.

Someone expressing their 'smaller' pain doesn't take anything away from anyone else's 'greater' one.

Lovely post Eyes.

agree it bugs me when people and my doctor used to say after 6mths of ttc it will happen

same after a year, and let alone 2 years - and after 3 years of ttc - of having roughly 36 periods and sobbing my heart out every month, some people say relax, it will happen, took us xxx months etc

tbh there are only 2 friends who know how i feel as both ended up having ivf and both now have darling children - all my other friends just seemed to cough and get pregnant - not their fault but still tough

there is no guarantee anyone will fall pregnant - and to say it WILL happen is wrong

esp in my case as i said in my previous post unlikely i will become a mum and that breaks my heart :( - i have 3 factors against me - my age, lack of man and therefore sperm - well maybe do it manless and use sperm donor but tbh i cant think of that at this moment - but still have my age to consider and yes i know there are many woman on here who conceived over 40 and maybe that will be me

but what does bug me is when friends get preg within say 2/3mths of trying and they smoke and drink during pregnancy (obv a different kettle of fish/thread needed)

do they not know how lucky they are and yet still put their unborn baby at risk :(

anyway im woffling off the subject

have said it before - doesnt matter if ttc 1 or ttc4 and cant its still pain - different pain but it doesnt matter why our hearts break and we cry - its the fact we do

going back to the OP, it is the audience:

1. is there anything wrong with people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever? No

1. is there anything wrong with people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever to women who cannot become a mother at all? Yes

There isnt anything wrong with how anyone feels but everyone deserves some sensitivity.

Well said, TheReal - that is it exactly.

Of course it's the audience. But then someone who has a child who took years to conceive and has spent years trying to conceive number might be fed up if someone who has been ttc their first for 6 months is moaning about not being pregnant yet. It is sometimes wise to keep irrational feelings and comparisons to yourself though.

Enough.

And what of the lack of sensitivity shown to women suffering SIF on this thread? Do their feelings not matter as much? Or are we happy with changing the goalposts. But enough, just waiting for mnhq to block me now so I'm not trmpted to return. I hope you all get your hearts desire.

Why are people playing infertility top-trumps? Its not a game to see who can hurt the most.

I'm really saddened by this thread. It actually makes my heart ache. Whether you are suffering from primary infertility or secondary, we are all aiming for the same goal: To have a child. Surely the thoughts and emotions experienced by women with and without children during this tough time meet somewhere? We should be supporting one another and listening to each other, rather than turning on each other...And that's what I see happening on here. Every person's thoughts count, and that's what I like about the support I've received from other threads. No one judges what you write or feel, but I suppose it's too much to ask for a thread in AIBU to be supportive. I hope this thread gets pulled.