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.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

483 replies

AuntieDoris · 18/10/2011 18:00

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

OP posts:
Maryz · 21/10/2011 09:11

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

iggi999 · 21/10/2011 09:15

I've been thinking about this thread for days now and it's not doing me any good.
When I have my next "sorry there's no heartbeat" scan I'll remind myself not to feel anything as I can't possibly grieve when I have one child at home. It's not as if my whole life has been clouded by the dead babies, I can just push them out of my head and play happy families.
I'm going to stay away from MN till this thread disappears. Maybe it's a good thing that I've learned how unsupportive MN can really be, if you don't know your place.

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 09:24

iggi don't stay away from mn just hide the thread. Not everyone thinks that if you have a child it's easier. There are unsupportive people everywhere but also a lot of supportive people.

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 09:26

Of course having a child might make it easier for some people. Especially if the child shows no interest in having a brother or sister. But for some people it could make it harder.

Maryz · 21/10/2011 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HeidiKat · 21/10/2011 09:28

OP you have my sympathy and I can totally understand why you feel the way you do, to want a child and not be able to have even one must be incredibly painful. I think that loss of a child, miscarriage or stillbirth, is a separate issue to infertility, anyone who experiences that will feel the same pain regardless of whether they have a living child or not.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 21/10/2011 09:54

Moonin there are people on this thread insisting that secondary infertility is as devastating as, or worse, than never having any children.

I think that is a truly unfeeling thing to suggest.

Is my sadness at not conceiving a third worse than the pain of Jodie or Auntie, because DD1 keeps asking for a brother?

Is it as bad as those of you who have one precious child, but who fear they will never give that child a sibling?

I just can't see how it is, or how I could fairly claim it was.

If someone struggling for a second thinks I'm lucky to have what I have, I don't think that invalidates my sadness.

Would I show up on the hardcore infertility threads and expect people to think things were just as bad for me? No.

I might like to have a moan with other women struggling for no.3 or 4, who would understand that it is shit, and that I have my gloomy days where I curse my now-failing body.

I think the acknowledgement that "shit, this must be awful for you. I'm so glad I didn't go through all of this first (or second, or whatever) time would go a long way here.

Why the need to insist that you have it just as bad? I don't get it.

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/10/2011 09:58

in one sense they dont compare - the loss of not ever having something versus the loss of know what you are loosing.

but: a woman who cannot have any children would always swap with the women who has one but cannot have anymore, IMO however differently awful that situation was.

mrszimmerman · 21/10/2011 10:00

I think all infertility is unique in its painfulness to those who experience it.
Sharing experience helped me more than almost anything else.
But ime, no one knows the pain you can suffer with infertility, no one knows how bad it can be unless they've been there.
BUT I really can't see that infertility after having a child is as bad, it certainly wasn't for me, but it isn't a competition is it.
It's a total nightmare and my compassion and empathy goes out to anyone who's experiencing it or who has experienced it. It's just horrible and the tactlessness of other gives it an extra horror. The things people said to me before I had my dc were mind numbingly insensitive.

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:03

A person ttc their first likely would swap with someone with a child. And then if they still couldn't conceive they would have to deal with their pain plus possibly the pain of their child who may want a sibling you can't provide. They wouldn't know if that felt better or worse unless they were actually able to swap places.

Moominsarescary · 21/10/2011 10:05

How do you know what people went through to get their first child?

How do you know that for some people not being able to conceive their second isn't as painful for them as trying to conceive their first was ?

Why does anyone think they have the right to tell someone their situation is more painful than someone else's?

TheRealTillyMinto · 21/10/2011 10:09

would anyone going through the pain of not being able to have a second child swap places with someone ttc #1?

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:11

I was ttc my first for about three years. I was very hard. Although there are people on this thread ttc their first and subsequent children who i feel are having a harder time than I did. I only lost one pg in all that time - very early on.

Maryz · 21/10/2011 10:13

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TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:13

Well that's difficult to say as you wouldn't want to give them back once you had them. But you might wonder whether you should have had a family at all if you can't give your child siblings. Especially when you get comments about them being lonely etc.

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:14

I don't think anyone would say that someone without a child was 'better off'. I personally find the whole 'which is better' thing quite distasteful.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 21/10/2011 10:17

Indeed. Who has ever said "if I can't have another, I wish my first had never been born"?

The idea that all pain is the same, that it is not possible to think that some things are worse than others is a nonsense.

When my great aunt and uncle lost their 21 year old son in a rta, a relative compared their loss to when her dog died.

That's what it means to say all loss is the same - it is a refusal to recognise that however shit things are for you, there are other people who have greater claims to sympathy.

Acknowledging that doesn't minimise your pain, but a refusal to acknowledge it minimises theirs.

screamingbohemian · 21/10/2011 10:17

'But you might wonder whether you should have had a family at all if you can't give your child siblings.'

Who on earth would think that? Hmm

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:20

But if you aren't in someone elses shoes how do you know who has a greater claim. Someone who has been ttc for a year but has never lost a child. Someone who has been ttc their 2nd for 8 years who's child is desperate for a sibling. There is no league table for grief. And it isn't always as obvious as death of a son versus death of a dog.

BagofHolly · 21/10/2011 10:22

" But you might wonder whether you should have had a family at all if you can't give your child siblings. Especially when you get comments about them being lonely etc."

Eh? Really? Seriously, really?

boohoohoo · 21/10/2011 10:24

Jeez what a ridiculous thing to say, my dd was an only child for 15 years until I managed to concieve my ds. At no point did I ever wonder if it would have been better if I'd never have her. What a strange thing to say.

DuelingFanjo · 21/10/2011 10:25

AW, yanbu to feel upset but I do agree no one has a monopoly on pain. I had my one child by IVF and have always vowed that I will be happy with the one I got rather than start to get upset about not being able to have another. I remember feeling like you about people who were in knots about not being able to have a second and I did think it insensitive of them when there I was with no child at all. Thing is, I recon when people have conceived a first child easily they just assume there will be no problem with the next and so when that doesn't happen they panic and it becomes a serious issue for them.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 21/10/2011 10:27

Shecutoftheirtails - " But I would be more than a little Hmm if someone who had suffered one mmc and had gone on to have a successful pregnancy insisted that her loss, her pain was the same as that of someone who had lost a baby at term. Or worse, claimed it was better to have a stillbirth, because at least you got the whole pregnancy."

Are you seriously rating baby loss now?

You are shouting about a right to discuss feelings about infertility while stamping all over feelings about baby loss.

Well I lost my son at somewhere between 20 and 22 weeks of my pregnancy to a late MMC. I gave birth to him two days later and was not allowed to see him because he had been dead inside me for anywhere up to two weeks and his condition had "deteriorated."

Eleven months later I lost my daughter to prematurity at 22+3 weeks, she lived for two hours and died in my arms.

Both experiences were devastating to me in equal measure and I don't feel any better about either loss just because I then went on to have a (bloody traumatic) third pregnancy with two serious scares that required medical intervention and brought home a healthy son. Physically my experiences had differences, but emotionally I was ripped apart BOTH times.

How dare you tell me that I should feel worse about losing my daughter than losing my son, just because his loss is classed as a MMC to the medical world. If I have to describe it I say stillbirth because at least people seem to understand that he didn't just vanish in a puff of smoke, they accept that he was actually born (after a nine hour labour). But in my heart the only way to describe it is as my sons birth because sticking a label on it, MMC or even stillbirth, makes people like you think it's okay to mark his loss down.

There is a special kind of hell in knowing that your baby has died inside you and you didn't even notice they were gone. There is a different kind of hell in knowing the baby you are in the process of giving birth to will die once they are born. How dare you judge either of those and find one to be better than the other? You cannot tell me that losing my son to a late MMC is better than losing my daughter because she died neonatally.

I feel so much guilt because we didn't see or hold our son and tell him that we loved him. I torment myself wondering if he would think it meant we loved his sister more than him or cared more that she had died. I worry that both of those babies will think I replaced them with a living child and so don't care that they are dead now. And I worry that my living son will believe I would rather have one of those babies back and not have had him at all.

Because that's what I have to face every day. The fact that to have just one of my children the other two either had to die or never be conceived at all.

From the very second you know your child has died, that's what you face for the future if you even think of conceiving again, that somehow one of your children will feel that they are less loved and wanted than other.

How dare you tell me that my losses are better than someone else's because I went on to have a healthy child and they may not?

You have no right.

Nobody should be made to feel that they have no right to feel bad about their own situation once in a while. I can understand why the OP started this thread but I cannot understand why so many people have to jump all over it shouting about who should feel better or worse than whom. Who has more 'right' to be upset, whose pain is greater by what degree.

Everyone is entitled to have a bad day where they feel low and ask for support or the chance to have a rant and they shouldn't be expected to add a disclaimer saying "but of course you are feeling much worse than me" to it.

I use a bereavement forum for parents who lost babies to stillbirth and neonatal death and some of them have experienced early miscarriage too. Feelings do run high sometimes and occasionally you do get an argument taking place but mostly people try to stay supportive and remember that every loss is different for every family, there is no worse or better.

Why can we not accept that here, that every case of infertility is different for every woman, man, couple or family, without then having to say "...but theirs is worse than yours" to someone else. For most people it's something that really doesn't need to be said

There's a saying on the bereavement forum that gets said a lot. "Walk a mile in my shoes and then decide." Some people might jump at the chance to change shoes but who knows how they would feel if they did. Because they still would be themselves, not the person whose shoes they were wearing, and we cannot know the depth of feelings that someone else is experiencing no matter how much better or worse we think they are in comparison to ourselves.

OP I'm not pretending to understand infertility. I came onto this thread because currently I have a friend who is suffering secondary infertility and has just had an embryo implanted this week. She is terrified that this attempt will not work. The previous three have all ended in miscarriage. Having another child (first with this partner) has taken over her life for the past eight years and this is her last chance. If this doesn't work I don't know how she will cope. I also have a family member struggling with infertility linked to PCOS who will be visiting this week, the first time she will have seen my son who is now 2 1/2 and I am worried she will find it difficult. I feel at a loss to know how to support them both. I was hoping to find some sort of advice on this thread. I wasn't expecting to find what the thread has become. Sad

TheBestWitch · 21/10/2011 10:27

Some people might. I didn't struggle to conceive my second but I would have been devastated if I couldn't have given dd a brother or sister. That was the only reason I had 2.
Obviously you wouldn't want to not have your child once you've got them but I would compare it to when I had PND and was struggling to cope and often thought 'I should never have had kids'. I would never have given her away though!

MadameBoo · 21/10/2011 10:27

Iggi There is lots of support on MN - but generally AIBU is not the place to find it. This thread has made me shed proper tears.

I am so sad because I have been on a supportive thread where I have never been made to feel guilty about having another child. Nobody has ever had a go at me, or told me that my feelings are less valid, because trying for number 2 has been taking so long.

Lissie You don't know me but I have seen your posts. My heart is breaking for you, and others like you. Please hide this thread - you know it is not representative of the whole of mumsnet.