.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

[AuntieDoris]

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

Sorry kewcumber I didn't mean to offend. I've not experienced anything like what some people have faced, but for a while I genuinely thought I wouldn't have children. Obviously I'm not infertile. We had some tests done and dh had a lowish sperm count.

But for me, once I gave up hope - it did happen. Sorry if it pisses you off but it is what it is.

I didn't really take offence - but if you'd heard it as often as I did you'd know just how irritating it is to say it to someone who has given up ttc. The majority of people who have have extenisve fertility treatment don't miraculously get pregnant when they finally admit defeat. Nor do the majority of people who adopt. Despite some social workers perpetuating this myth.

What I've realise since Moomin's post, that I didn't appreciate earlier, is that this thread had a context in another thread where people with secondary infertility were discussing their feelings.

So people who took it personally were not taking it personally purely because of the sentiment expressed, but because they had good reason to feel that they themselves were the people being complained about for "moaning".

Had I realised this was the background, I would have stayed away from the thread.

I sympathise with the OP's feelings, but I certainly don't think that women going through secondary infertility have no reason to be upset, or that they shouldn't give vent to that.

No, no, no. Just to be clear this wasn't posted specifically after reading another thread and I apologise if that hadn't been made clear (which almost certainly it wasn't).

The pissed-off-ness stemmed from a comment a friend made to me in real life.

I am sorry if people thought that I was specifically pointing the finger on here because I wasn't.

Agree with Kew. Some people do conceive after a long time of trying, but it's not necessarily due to giving up, it could have happened anyway. In nearly all cases, once people sadly give up hope, it doesn't happen.

How are you AuntieDoris?

YANBU - we lost a little boy at 5 months due to a genetic condition. We then mustered the courage to try again even though we have a 1:4 chance of the condition recurring in each pregnancy. We have been blessed with a second healthy DS but won't try for any more children because we feel so lucky to have our son and couldn't face losing another baby. It's very sad for us knowing that we won't have any more children but it is nothing compared to the despair I felt when I thought we might not have any at all (I'm comparing my pain not anyone else's).

I feel for you OP and hope you get as lucky as we did.

Fixture thanks for asking.

I am generally fucked off today. I am upset that I have upset people when that wasn't my intention and I am astounded as to how unbelievably mean people have been on here, to both myself and other people.

I would like to say that I regret starting this thread, but I don't. I have learned a lot from other posters and think that things on here have been said that should have been said. That is the main reason that I won't be asking MN to delete this thread. For a start I have learnt that almost certainly what I write will be mis-interpreted.

As has been said numerous times on this thread, no one person has a monopoly on pain and no one person has the right to play pain top trumps. It seems to me however that it is perfectly acceptable to feel shit about what is going on in our lives. It is also perfectly acceptable to express those feelings. No-one makes individuals read a thread - we each make choices about things.

Today I am feeling fed-up and vulnerable, and no doubt someone will come on here and tell me to get over myself. That's fine, but that's how I feel today.

Now this afternoon I have to go and be an amazing Auntie (because I am) whilst not spending my whole time wishing that I was out on the beach with my children and not my sisters kids. That's the reality of not having any children at all.

AD for you. This thread has made my eyes wet for many reasons.
You do not need to 'get over yourself' your feelings are valid and you shouldn't feel bad for expressing them.
Wishing you love.
And Lissie I will think about your post for a long time to come.

AuntieDoris :( It's hard to feel too fucked off when you are at the beach - go and let the cobwebbs be blown off you.

It is shit when you upset/hurt people when it wasn't your intention but tbh you can't always be responsible for that. Some of the people complaining could have chosen not to read the thread.

It is so so so hard when you want to be Mummy & not Auntie. There is an assumption that you are at least lucky to have nieces & nephews - but in many ways, it just highlights your own pain - no matter how much you love them.

If anyone tells you to get over yourself - ignore them. No matter how much pain someone else is in, it does not mean your pain is nothing :(

Ah, fair enough Auntie.

I think it's been a pretty good thread, overall.

I do agree with others though, that Lissie's post (and others) whilst very very hard to read are the kind of thing people do need to read - to understand that the plastered on smile does not mean that everything is OK. As always, Lissie, I'm sending lots of love and keeping my fingers crossed for you

YANBU to be fed up IMO. I can't even begin to feel how upsetting that must be.

But try not to take it out on them if they don't know your situation.

Auntie Doris, I have nothing useful to say apart from giving u a massive and I wish wish wish for your wish to happen, have found yours, and other posts so moving, xx

Having read this thread and sleeping on it overnight, I just wanted to add that surely compassion and love are infinite? So even if we privately may think one persons pain may be less than anothers (or our own) there is not a finite amount of kindness and support we have to go around.

I agree that people moaning about being infertile after only trying a few months (if they have no proven medical issues) is annoying. But the rest is just an infinite grey scale and comparisons are meaningless.

Do I have no rights to moan about when I had ttc for 3 years and had two miscarriages because my friend suffered similar plus she had to terminate a baby at 24 weeks? And does she have no right to be upset because another friend of ours has suffered similar to us plus had a stillbirth? Of course not. Comparisons help no-one and we should just try our best to show support and compassion to everyone going through the hell of i/f, miscarriage and loss.

I truely hope all those facing this battle get their baby to keep soon.

Dandylioness - my posting yesterday was prompted by Lissie's response to the thread but it was never specifically about her. In fact it was about the many, many posters (including Lissie) whose stories I have seen on mumsnet over the years struggling to conceive. The only time I was specifically talking about her was after she had said she felt unable to post.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me regarding the benefit or lack thereof derived from this thread. I was profoundly uneasy when I first saw it, said as much and I remain in that state today. I have commented not because I enjoy disagreeing with vulnerable people but because I honestly believe the damage this thread has done exceeds any benefit.
I am horrified you think I have posted what I have because of the popularity of a poster or the profile of the OP. Categorically that is not the case.

I think you've got a point OP. I think fertility problems are incredibly painful and hard to live with, and everyone who wants a child and is unable to have one deserves enormous sympathy. But there is a difference between never having had a child and not being able to have a second, third, fourth etc child. Anyway, I wish you all the very best.

Doris I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Everyone's pain is different. I think that's all you can say really.

We had DD last year with no problems. Who knows what a next attempt would bring. Reading this just brings it home to me how very very lucky we have been to not have had to go through the stresses and difficulties of so many on here.

g