.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

[AuntieDoris]

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

But I know my friend has never ttc'd nor had miscarriages, we talk, we're friends. She knows about my Infertility, mc's and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. I know about how badly her ex behaved in and subsequent to the breakdown of their relationship.

I never said my situation was worse. I never said anywhere on this thread that being unable to conceive or carry a subsequent child is a lesser pain than being unable to conceive or carry your first.

Not that I'm trying to censor you, sorry!

My post was at TheBestWitch

And I think that the example of a father and a grandfather dying and the father dying being worse is similar to what is being discussed here. It might seem that losing a father is always going to be worse but if you are not close to your father/very close to or brought up by your grandfather then that might be worse. Life isn't always black and white.

Again at BestWitch

My friend has other pain I her life beyond being childless, I have other pain in my life beyond being childless. I'm not sure what your point is other than trying to make me out to be self centred and unkind?

I'm not being competitive. I'm not saying primary or secondary infertility is worse. They are both bad. I think mutual understanding is a good way to go.

I suppose it's about not depersonalising it. I think that was my point about my grandmother. How could you choose what was the worst thing to happen to her, or put it on an ordinal scale? You just couldn't. And that's just one person.

And I guess the OP was actually just talking about people moaning.. not people who are actually experiencing infertility, but people who are trying for, say, no. 3 and it has taken them all of six months and they are banging on about it to all and sundry. Which is very different to the woman whose third child was stillborn who suffers another miscarriage but is desperate to have another child etc etc. AIBU tends towards the general which is how things can spin out of control..

Off to bed now. I wish everyone a peaceful night and, while I'm being unmumsnetty, babydust to all who want and need it.

My point is that some on this thread are basically saying that secondary infertility isn't as bad as primary infertility which has upset some people suffering secondary infertility. I was just pointing out that there are people who some may think are worse off than couples suffering primary infertility such as single people who want a family but it is insulting and unhelpful to try and categorise who is the most deserving of sympathy like that.

Exactly, TheBest - life isn't black and white.

So demanding that all things called "infertility" are the same, and just as painful, is unfair.

Of course someone very close to a grandfather would feel the loss more than someone estranged from their father.

I'm not suggesting a matrix of pain points, earned according to a rigid system.

Just that "mutual understanding" includes understanding when somebody else has it worse than you.

I was one of the ones who said secondary infertility is 'not as bad' as primary infertility. (sorry to lapse into the competitive language).

I stand by that. I previously experienced primary infertility, and I am currently experiencing secondary infertility. Both are hell.

I grieve every day because I may never have #2.

But I have my son upstairs and that's the difference.

There is a vast gulf between 0 and 1. The gulf between 1-2 or more is smaller. It still hurts, but you have a consolation prize.

Perhaps we are talking about two separate things:

infertility which is heartbreaking whenever it happens, however many children you have, involves grief and loss and frustration and medically invasive procedures and arguments and waiting and obsession and general shitness which isn't mitigated by already having children

and

being childless which comes with its own list of heartbreaking consequences which so many others on here have described so eloquently.

It probably seems like I am splitting hairs, but there's a reason it is worth teasing out the distinction.

That those who are going through infertility issues are all going through the same thing - there is no pecking order and they are all utterly entitled to feel the pain they feel. But those who face being childless have an additional set of issues to deal with.

No BB, you are right. Infertility affects everyone who can't conceive, but primary infertility also entails childlessness, or the prospect of it.

Of course but the person who has it worse isn't necessarily childless. I was ttc dd (my first) for many years. I would still have had massive sympathy for anyone who suffered miscarriages/stillbirths whether it was their 2nd or 12th child. I wouldn't have assumed I was worse off. The title of the thread gives the impression that primary infertility is always worse. And that if you have a child you've no right to moan. I don't think that's right.

Jodie I am so sorry for your loss and what you are going through.

Great post BeeBread

It is true that people with primary infertility face the prospect of never having children but people with secondary infertility face the issue that it is not only that they can't have another child but their child can't have a brother or sister.
There is no objective measure of which is worse.

Also wanted to say great post BeeBread. Thank you.

Maryz I am on your behalf that anyone would say that about your ds1. IMO caring for your kids is what creates the bond.

The problem I had with the OP was the insinuation that if you already have kid you lose the entitlement to moan or be extremely upset.