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.... to be fed-up when people moan about not being about to conceive DC 2/3/4/5/6/whatever

483 replies

AuntieDoris · 18/10/2011 18:00

... when I can't even manage to get pregnant with number 1?

I know it doesn't make any difference to me but it still unreasonably winds me up :(

OP posts:
iggi999 · 19/10/2011 21:39

I am a regular on recurrent miscarriage threads, and I am starting to wonder now having read this thread whether others on those threads who do not have any dcs think I should stop "moaning" and leave.
Wish I'd never clicked on this, I thought we were all in this together Sad

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

working9while5 · 19/10/2011 21:40

ASByatt, I get what you're saying but ot doesn't really seem that way to me, I have to say.. because there have been frequent references to "but at least you are a parent", or it's about being a parent vs not being a parent etc and that reads to me as though it is saying that makes it "less bad". And how can any of us know?

It seems like Sophie's Choice to me, impossible to arbitrate without pain. My BIL's brother and his wife tried for years and years to conceive. They did, it was joyous, he was healthy etc. And then they tried for another five years, nothing happened etc. And then he dropped dead one day. Massive heart attacked. And his wife found out, within weeks of his death, that she was pregnant with their longed-for second child. How could anyone "scale" that as an experience... or say whether it is the same as or different to another one? Some people just go through unimaginable torment and it sounds like many on this thread have been to their own personal hell.. but how can anyone compare their experience to someone else's and say that it is worse? I think I can say that from my perspective, I think that these experiences are worse than what I've ever been through.. but you can say that, can't you? You can say "I think you've had it really tough, I can't imagine what you've been through" but as soon as it switches to "I think I've had it really tough, it's way worse than what you've been through" it becomes very difficult. And that is what I am reading here too, even though I guess it is unintentional because actually everyone just wants to say recognise this horrendous pain I am in!?

I am so, so sorry that people have to go through all this shit.

ASByatt · 19/10/2011 21:40

Mysterious - ooooooh yes, that ranks up there with, "Perhaps it just wasn't meant to be......" said in a pseudo-comforting way after miscarriage - oh well, that's ok then..... Hmm just so crass.

sweetsherry · 19/10/2011 21:40

No, it really isn't a queuing system, because queues are mostly systematic and fair and there is no fairness in fertility. None.

And you just have to accept it and suck it up. Put on a good public face if you can and grieve in private. And on here, I don't see why you can't do that.

Primary and secondary infertility is a rough and lonely place to be. I can't comment on anything beyond that (but in truth, there would be ever diminishing returns on my sympathy).

screamingbohemian · 19/10/2011 21:42

No one has said anyone should 'stop moaning'

Ariesgirl · 19/10/2011 21:44

I have read this thread. I think everyone should put it to bed now. It's inadvertently hurting a lot of people, even if they're not posting here. Please. Sorry AuntieD, I know you didn't mean it to end up like this.

TheBestWitch · 19/10/2011 21:45

I wonder what people who want to categorise grief would feel about a single woman who wanted to get married and have kids being pissed of with someone suffering primary infertility moaning because 'at least they have a dp/dh'.

ASByatt · 19/10/2011 21:47

working - I really feel though that for people struggling to have a first child, the gulf between 'never being a parent' and 'not becoming a parent again' is significant though, because for them it feels as though becoming a parent at all is such an impossibility. That doesn't mean that people in that situation discount the suffering of couple experiencing secondary infertility, though, but it feels different, because that other couple have been able to pass the 'impossible gulf.'

I'm sorry, I'm conscious of not explaining myself well here.

PicaK · 19/10/2011 21:47

So much anger...

If this thread has taught me anything it's that infertility - whether primary, secondary etc, is so awful, so soul-destroying, so life-shrivelling, so shit that it turns us into screaming harpies.

I hate it. I wish I had no idea. I wish I could be one of the fertile that offers thoughtless advice.

Can we turn our energies towards something else. I hear there are tarot card readers at the Infertility Show in November - surely that should make everyone's blood boil?

ColdSancerre · 19/10/2011 21:48

Actually TheBestWitch I have a good friend who wasted her fertile years on a twat who then left her for someone else. Incompletely understand her grief at lack of children is just as bad as mine and agree in that at least I have DP.

sweetsherry · 19/10/2011 21:49

AS Byatt, don't worry, you said it well.

SheCutOffTheirTails · 19/10/2011 21:49

Saying one thing "is just as bad" as another is making a comparison.

And saying that never having children is no worse than not having your preferred number of children is making a comparison that belittles the pain of some here.

Some things are obviously worse than others. As sad as I was when my grandfather died, I would not compare my loss to that of my friend who lost her Dad to the same disease shortly afterwards. Because to lose your very elderly grandfather is not as sad, as terrible as losing your middle-aged father who should have had years left.

I really think expecting women who think they might never have any children to accept that their situation is just the same as that of a woman with two children who wants a 3rd she can't have, is an enormous liberty.

How hard is it to say, "my situation is shit, but yours is worse and you have my sympathy"?

working9while5 · 19/10/2011 21:50

Jodie, I cross posted there as I was writing an essay. I guess that's it, there are times in life when people just see things so differently it's hard to find that common viewpoint. I am no religious person but to me it's that whole "but now we see but through a glass darkly" stuff.. you can't see everything from everyone's point of view, our minds and hearts just don't allow it and if they could we'd probably explode. It would be like that Radiohead video, we would all just lie down in the street to die if we had to really "get" all the suffering the world has to offer.

Whenever I feel like that about life, I think about my grandmothers.. both in their 80's now, both who have been through such suffering and joy that it is scarcely believable.. and it's hard to look at them sometimes and think that they got through that and they went on and that all those painful times passed. My father's mother was abused to the point of nearly losing her life in her marriage, watched her children raped, had several second trimester losses because of beatings, her brother died in a tragic accident, a son ended up in prison, her sister had a mental breakdown and killed her newborn baby.. it sounds like a soap opera but it is not, it was her life.. and yet if you met her you would just never know any of this. The human capacity for moving onwards in the most intolerably painful situations is just astounding but sort of terrible too, because in the end, she had to do all that on her own really.

And it seems that's the case for so many people still, people just have to struggle on through really painful situations and probably ALL of us feel we have it the worst sometimes. And we are all right, in our own way.

Infertility is not my pain, so I really shouldn't and can't really comment on it or understand it as you do.

Unmumsnetty hugs and all of that.

ColdSancerre · 19/10/2011 21:51

Incompletely = I completely

Sorry, iPad auto correct

TheBestWitch · 19/10/2011 21:51

Just as bad or worse ColdSancerre?

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 21:51

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ColdSancerre · 19/10/2011 21:53

Just as bad, neither of us are mothers despite us wanting to be.

screamingbohemian · 19/10/2011 21:53

SCOTT, I think you've summed it up very nicely, thank you

sweetsherry · 19/10/2011 21:54

Shecutofftheirtails - "my situation is shit, but yours is worse and you have my sympathy" - I must remember that exact sentiment.

I occasionally get frustrated by a childless friend, who keeps telling me I should just be grateful for what I have - she is actually right, although I feel so annoyed that no-one in RL can get a handle on why secondary infertility is so hard.

It's hard first time round, and it's hard again.

TheBestWitch · 19/10/2011 21:55

I really don't know how people can be so sure their situation is worse though. While I was trying for many years to conceive my first people I encountered ttc their second/third etc may have had numerous miscarriages/stillbirths that I wasn't aware of.

KittyFane · 19/10/2011 21:55

ASByatt well said.

JodieHarsh · 19/10/2011 21:57

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TheBestWitch · 19/10/2011 21:57

But some may say it was worse for your friend because at least you have your dp.

ASByatt · 19/10/2011 21:59

theBestWitch - erm, I think we're tryingto move away from the competitive suffering more towards mutual support and understanding........