Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

[morine]

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

Whilst interesting to read, your post has an strong focus on descendants of slavery and how they might perceive themselves.

What, though, of people born from a modern partnership between two different 'races' where both partners have joined together in equality, with no history of slavery in their past? Surely, if that is their wish, they are correct to consider themselves 'mixed race'?

I also wonder at which arbitrary point might a generation decide not to acknowledge its mixed race background within a brief definition of their own race...you mention 1/4 black; is this still mixed race? Or next generation, 1/8 black? I'm just musing, and have no answers.

I haven't seen any other thread on this subject so may just be repeating something someone else has said.

As a mother of 3 mixed race children, this subject is close to my heart. My children are mixed race, not black, not white. Mixed, that is the beauty of it.

I understand what you are saying morine, and agree that in the past of course mixed race people would identify with their black heritage. I certainly wouldn't want to identify with a recent and painful part of my heritage that was resposible for enslavery, torture, and death of many innocent people.

However, my children live in a society that on the whole condems this behaviour and would fight against any organisation. So surely it is time to embrace this and not continue to exclude and race.

I know that my childrens white side of the family would be devistated if they were just ignored as part of their history.

FWIW The black side of our family is Zimbabwean so racism and segregation has been more current for them than most, but they would disagree with you also.

At jaquelinehyde, in my post I don't really give any point of view here. My post is trying to explain why mixed race people have always been identify as black, as there has been a thread with the title " Are mixed race people black"? so I had to talk about the History to help people to understand why mixed race people have always been identified as black. There is no need to agree or disagree with here, I don't really give any point of view, I am just trying to explain why the identification of mixed race people seem to be confused, as some would identify themselves as black and others as mixed race, So your children would not need to agree or disagree, they just need to learn thats all.

As I was saying in the post, today mixed race have the right to identify themselves as they want, as people are more tolerant. White people know about their History, Indians know about their History, why mixed race and black should not know about their History ?
You have been a bit quickly in the defensive without knowing the purpose of this post.

At verylittlecarrot, I think you miss the point. Just be open to learn and to understand. This thread has been started because people were wondering why mixed race were identified as black, I have been trying to explain it. If you are a mother of mixed race children, why don't you go and find out, so you would have answers to your questions.

is there another thread? what was the reason for not posting on it, morine? and i'm not sure that vlc is missing the point so much as you're not answering her question. no point telling her to go and find out if you yourself are ignoring her.

interesting post, of course, i'm just not sure why it requires its own thread.

Feel a bit uncomfortable about the way you are objectifying mixed race people. Talking in the third person, "he has always been called black" and so on. Not sure it's a good idea to use sexism in an argument about racism, either.

And it feels a bit as if you are telling people who identify as mixed race what they should think or call themselves. That's up to the individual, surely?

The whole 1/2 Black or 1/4 Black is worrying as well. Just sits badly with me.

wow. the old days aren't all they were 'craked' up to me.

I knew that a person with even one black grand parent was considered black at the time. So it made no difference to be half white. it didn't protect the slave.

However, now that the dust has settled a bit, do mixed race people only look to one side of their heritage? it is mixed. Their ancestors were both slaves and slave owners. An odd feeling i am sure. but that is the full picture.

my daughter is 1/4 black. she considers herself white. is that a choice that's respected?

Not all mixed race people are descended from slaves or slave owners though. Someone whose father is African and mother White British won't have that history.

i'm finding the 'strength' of blackness index a bit hard to get my head round, in any case.

The mixed people who are part of my family are proud of both sides and are just are what they are.
This is all too American for me

yup, i have a pal who is mixed race, with a slave heritage and an irish one. she has a lot to be proud of and angry about on both sides of her family.

Edam, I am not objectifying mixed race people, I do have lot of respect for them. I used "he" to talk in general, some time I said "mixed race people", sometimes "the mixed race", sometimes "he", just not to repeat the same word, I am not objectifying at all.

I didn't post on the other thread because it was quite already full. In that thread people where saying thing like : why a child born from a white and black parent is called black ? Why mixed race people are black.....

And also i talk a lot with mixed race people and some do have a confusion about their identity, some are ok, they identify themselves wether as mixed race, whether as black.

The ppurpose of the thread is not black or mixed race? The purpose of the thread is to try to explain why before the first identification of a mixed race would be called "black" ?

Edam, the slavery also had happened in Africa but it didn't last as long as in Europe and other continents.

Maggie, like I was said in my op, times have changed, black people are now integrated in western societies, generally today mixed race people would identify themselves according their own experience, the environment they are growing in, or the way they are brought up, really it will depend on different factors, so we just have to respect their choice. They might pass through experiences we would never pass through. Your daughter who is 1/4 can today identify herself as white or as mixed race, it is a choice we all have to respect because today each mixed race has a different experience.

I have known mixed race people 1/4 black who identified themselves as black, but have been rejected by black people, other 1/4 black live in a mixed or black community and would not have problems to identify themselves as black. Times have changed.

The thread is there to try to understand why the label "black" has always been given to mixed race people as I saw that many in the other thread were asking this question, so sorry for going back to the atrocities of the slavery but I had to it for a better understanding

Ok maybe I have been a bit subjective talking about the black heritage, but a msrruffalo says, if a mixed race is proud of his black heritage, it doesn't mean that he is not proud of his white heritage. And according to my experience, today, most mixed race people are proud of both of their backgrounds.

oh I see. I didn't see the original thread.

thanks for posting. interesting although more sad than interesting...

Thank you Maggie, the History can sometimes be very sad but at least it can clarify some confusions, I am happy that I wasn't born that time

Interesting OP.

It all starts to go tits up when you have mixed race children (father is very definitely 'black') who look white.

When I was pregnant DH was on a militant 'anyone who isn't white is black' tip, and I had no objections to this. I felt quite strongly that if it was important to him to instill 'black pride' in our children, then we should go for it. No way did I want my children growing up feeling that their blackness, their heritage, their skin, their hair etc was in any way undesirable.

Then we had a son who looks sort of vaguely Italian and a ginger, grey eyed daughter. To constantly say 'You are black, you are black' would be confusing and unfair. They are not black OR white.

So, my kids are very definitely mixed heritage. My DH and I both agree - we've come round to realising the importance of instilling a pride in that in them - their blackness, their whiteness, their 'mixedness'. That's what we are bringing them up to know themselves as.

There is plenty of room for intelligent discussion within this definition, btw.
My 5 yr old already has a very basic grasp of slavery, of how his Jamaican / Guyanese forebearers came to be in the Caribbean from Africa (and also indentured labourers from Portugal and Madeira!), and how his Irish grandparents came over to England.

I actually envy my children their background. It is so rich and so fascinating, full of pain and trauma, yes, but also beautiful and exciting and full of stories and lessons to be learned.

Yes, slavery also happened in Africa, but many of the slave owners were Black themselves, or Arabs. It's hugely complicated, not a simple 'all white people were evil slave owners and all Black people were slaves' issue.

Edam we are talking about the slavery here. We are talking about "why mixed race people have always had the label "black"? So sorry I had to go back to the atrocities. But believe me I have hesitated to post, i asked my DH who is English, just to make sure that people will not be offended, my DH said to me that it was ok.

Edam i know what you mean but the slave in Africa wasn't like the slave outside Africa. The slave in Africa was free, he had a contract with his master and at the end of that contract he was free. He wasn't treated as bad as outside Africa.
Please don't feel offended. I thought I have to reply to the confusions in the other thread and unfortunately i had to talk about the slavery.
There are many white people who are good and they are many black people who are bad, if you only think of the African dictators who torture their own people.

But please we don't want to be distracted. The purpose of this thread is to try to answer to the question : "Why mixed race people were called black before , and are called black?2

Oh sorry I wanted to say " We are NOT talking about slavery".

OK fine, you've explained why some mixed race people may be called Black or identify as Black. But I think it's important to leave it up to the individual. People are entitled to describe themselves and identify with whichever group they wish, or none at all.

The impression that if you are mixed race you must be Black because the white side of your family are evil slave owners is a bit offputting, as well as not always being true.

(I get interested in this sort of thing particularly as my mother is adopted, so we have literally no idea what her heritage is. Especially as she was born shortly after WW2 so goodness only knows what nationality her father was.)

I totally agree with you Edam. It is up to the individual, mixed race people would pass through experiences monoracials would not pass through, thats why it is up to the individual.

When i first came in the UK I didn't understand a lot of things about mixed race people. I have trying to know them more and to understand, but now I understand perfectly, each one has his own experience and should choose how he wants to be identified. I have also mixed race children, and I will let them the choice because they will not have the same experience as had. the worl is becoming homogeneous and I hope we will all identify ourselves as "human beings"

Edam I have travelled a lot in many European countries and i can tell you that i have found white people nicer than black people. When I was in the motherland i was thinking that a black person would be nicer with me than a white person, but the reality is not this, since i am in Europe, white people have always be nicer with me than black people.

Now I want to cancel the thread. But just bear in mind that my thread was a reply to the mums questions who were saying : " why mixed race people have always been labelled black? someone even put that she couldn't bear B. Obama be called black. To be honest i found it quite offending so I had to explain why mixed race tend to be called black. My thread might be a bit strong but I thought i had to explain what they couldn't understand.

Are you mixed race ?

i would say that edam could be mixed race.
her mother's father could have been American or German or anythingian.

and so could her mother's mother.

not just from a colour perspective, i think that race is to do with country of origin therefore different cultural experiences.

I agree, there are people who came in the UK since a very young age and assimilated themselves into the English culture, basically their mind is English but their skin might be of another colour. So really we should think more in terms of nationality than in terms of race.

Not as far as I know, morine, but then I really don't know very much at all in the circs. Had always vaguely assumed it would be obvious if my mother's father had been Black or Asian but actually I have several friends who are mixed race and look white and whose children are mixed race and look white (the children's fathers are not white). Genetics is really, really complicated.

So are our assumptions about each other - brought me up short when I saw a (different) friend's son on big poster in Mothercare posed with a white father. I'd always thought he looked like his Mum (who is of Chinese heritage, with two Chinese parents so not mixed race at all). But shown with a white 'father', I realised he does actually look white.