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Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

216 replies

morine · 19/01/2010 23:47

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

OP posts:
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heQet · 20/01/2010 17:50

As usual? Have we spoken before? What is the point then?

zoggs · 20/01/2010 17:51

heQet - I understand about not wanting to be defined by skin colour but other people do make judgements. My 8 year old has long said that it is "better to be white" as he knows about discrimination. He doesn't wish he was white, he just realsies life is easier, simpler. Here in the UK, anyway. Obviously, we have worked hard to make him proud of what he is.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:54

AitchTwoOh

I also enjoyed the programe : Is it better to be mixed race ? It seems like races are there to be mixed.

It is the first time I meet this mixture scots/Irish. Is it common? I have been in Scotland (Aberdeen), I enjoyed it.

OP posts:
morine · 20/01/2010 17:56

Thank you zoggs

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zoggs · 20/01/2010 18:01

Well, my parents are from near Aberdeen and I have that typical whiter than white, freckly Scottish look. Lots of people think nothing of commenting on it as if I am some sort of freak and ask if I am anaemic! But I accept that it is much more offensive to be derogatory about black skin because of the historical reasons (not just slavery).

verylittlecarrot · 20/01/2010 18:03

actually, morine, I feel you are completely missing a very valid point, whilst we have already understood and acknowledged yours.

Your point appears to try to justify why mixed race people have historically been defined more as black than mixed race.

Read my post again. I acknowledge your point, but it is limited to a specific group of people, and should not be extrapolated too far.

You really should think where you stand on the mixed race people to whom your history lesson has no personal relevance.

Why not respond to my points?

morine · 20/01/2010 18:36

Vlc, sorry if you have understood my op to mean something other than what I meant. I never meant that all mixed race children of partial black descent were descended from slavery. As I was saying, I was actually responding to the other thread where a lot of mums didn't seem to understand why the label "black" will always be applied to mixed race children, so I have tried to explain where this originates from (i.e. slavery)
Sorry if you feel offended by my little "history lesson", but it was not intended for people like you, or mixed race like your children. Again, it was simply a way of explaining to mums who seem to be surprised that a mixed race is labelled as black the majority of the time.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 19:04

the west of scotland is hoaching with us irishers, morine.
i didn't see the previous thread, and i think that posting in a second language isn't doing you any favours tbh, in essence i don't think you and vlc are in massive disagreement, it's just that you keep making sweeping statements that don't exactly stand up.
no matter, though, the history lesson was interesting.

oldenglishspangles · 20/01/2010 19:17

I am mixed race - if I am honest I always feel a bit dissappointed if a mixed race person refers to themselves as black. I ,personally, feel that it dimisses the other non black heritage. My children can pass for white (althought their feature are more towards mine)

oldenglishspangles · 20/01/2010 19:19

i always them they are mixed race and would be equally disappointed if they described themselves as white despite the colour of their skin.

morine · 20/01/2010 19:22

Hi oldenglishsp, What I have noticed is that mixed race people who still have their white family, would prefer to be call mixed race, I can understand this. But those who have only known their black family would prefer "Black". As I was saying it really depends on the experience of each individual.

Hope you didn't find offending the little History lesson

OP posts:
morine · 20/01/2010 19:25

Aitch, tbh, the problem comes when people start to take things personally.

Which sweeping statements don't exactly stand up?

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 19:28

from your last but one post, you have 'the label "black" will always be applied to mixed race children'. this patently isn't the case, judging by this thread.

morine · 20/01/2010 19:35

Aitch, thats why I was saying that this thread is actually a response to mums who couldn't understand why mixed race were labelled "Black". I took the example of what had happened in America to explain that it is actually since the slavery, so from the slavery to the Civil right movement and after. The label "black" to mixed race people comes from there.

OP posts:
JoeyBettany · 20/01/2010 19:35

Apologies, haven't read the whole thread.

I think your thread is interesting and in the context of African American history is mostly correct, i.e people of mixed race and black people referring to themselves as black.They have a shared history and culture but this does not apply to the UK.

In the UK, the history is obviously different and therefore many mixed race people here do not identify themselves as black any more than being white.

My son, for example, has a west african father and myself, a white mother. He refers to himself as mixed race and is being brought up in a predominantly white culture.It would be wrong to call him black, it would deny him of his maternal heritage and culture.

The whole thing is ridiculous though as we are all 'mixed race' to a certain extent. Fixating on skin colour as a defining characteristic really is something we all ought to be moving away from!!

IMO

morine · 20/01/2010 19:39

Joey, please say it to the mums who can't understand why Barrack Obama, Halley Berry are called "Black". When i posted I didn't mention anywhere that it was the UK, people where aware that I was talking about the USA.

As a mum said that she can't bear B. Obama be called "Black".

OP posts:
oldenglishspangles · 20/01/2010 19:40

You didnt offend me - I feel I a unique perspective, compare to many. BOTH of my parents are mixed race - born and raised in Jamiaca as 'black'. Yet I have always been proud of my mixed heritage and have always called myself mixed race. Whilst many mixed race people may consider themselves black back in Jamaica and even here in the uk my parents generation and following ones used the term 'red' to describe mixed race people. Often in a derogatory context. I grew up as part of the black community despite living in a predominantly white area. I, therefore, disagree that a lack of knowledge of your background would more likely cause a person to consider themselves mixed race. It would seem natural to me to call them selves that as it more readily recognises a rich curtural heritage. In my experience people choose the term often to show which culture they align themselves with more. I know mixed race people who consider themselves white and will have not acknowlege other heritages of which they should be extremely proud.

JoeyBettany · 20/01/2010 19:46

I personally think you expressed it very clearly Morine!

In the USA, people with white and African american parents will choose to identify themselves as 'Black' or 'African American' because the whole African American population has been mixed with white blood from the first days of slavery. To say they can't be black as they have white parents would be ridiculous as the vast majority of black people in the USA have many white ancestors in recent history.

And it is recent. Slavery ended in the 1860s, the last slave died in living memory. It's not ancient history, folks , it's alive and is very painful and important to many many people.

JoeyBettany · 20/01/2010 19:48

By the way, I'd recommend to anyone who's interested in the history of black people in the UK this book:

'Staying Power' by Peter Fryer.

It's a history book and starts in Roman times.

oldenglishspangles · 20/01/2010 20:02

I have a lot of 'black' family in American and the racial divisions are alive and well.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 20:08

i do fully understand your point, but 'the label "black" will always be applied to mixed race children' is clearly nonsense. it will more often than not be, no doubt, but the 'always' is too sweeping. like i say, i'm sure it's a posting in a second language thing.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 20:08

plus i do think that you should have posted on the original thread. you're not even speaking to the people you wanted to speak to, let's be honest.

tanmu82 · 20/01/2010 20:28

I am mixed race and I consider myself Black British. This is because I see it more as a cultural statement than a colour thing. Mixed race isn't a culture, whereas black (in my case, black caribbean) is, and Black British is an amalgamation of my family culture and the culture of the country I was born in. If asked specifically about my colour, I am happy to say Mixed Race, but that is not my culture.

White people obviously don't look at me and think I'm white, and most don't even think I'm mixed race despite being of a 'caramel' shade. I am seen as being black. This seems to be the experience of every mixed race (black/white) person I know except for those who have such light skin and fine hair as to be able to 'pass' for white.

AitchTwo...why are you so concerned about posting on the 'right' thread? OP wanted to make a specific point and obviously felt the need to do so on a new thread so as to make it stand out - I don't get why you have such an issue with that

onefatoneshortonelean · 20/01/2010 20:29

We don't know that Obama identifys himself as black. We only know that the American media identifys him as black. If he doesn't identify himself as black then its a bit late to make an issue out of it now. What we do know about him is he is not a transatlantic slave decendent. We also know that race ishoos in America are different from the UK.

The other thread was started about Kelly Holmes and Zadie Smith being being identified by the media as black. I honestly think that its different to say 'why do people who are decended from black slave and white slave owners so often identify themselves as black' and 'why are people with one white parent and one non white parent identified in the media as black'

I have only skimmed the other thread but I didn't see any posts from people who didn't know about slavery or didn't know that most slave decendents will have some white ancestry and so are technically mixed but consider themselves black. I think that most people are aware of this. What was offensive about the other thread? (couldn't find the bit about can't bear Obama to be called black )

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 20:34

two reasons, really.

one, it's bad etiquette on here to take things from thread to thread and start new threads without having appeared on the original, as you may or may not know.

and two, the OP is arguing with people who, in essence, agree with her.
her target audience is not on this thread at all, they're on another thread saying that they can't stand when barack obama identifies himself as black. god knows if morine has something interesting and educational to say, as she appears to do, she should be saying it to those people.