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Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

216 replies

morine · 19/01/2010 23:47

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

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JoeyBettany · 24/01/2010 14:39

no aitch that was never my point,

for the last time =

the europeans, involved in the slave trade justified slavery (to themselves) through science and the new ideas that there were 'categories' of humans.

They were, to my knowledge, the first to do this, though by no means the last.

This was originally in answer to the point someone made that racism caused slavery which is wrong IMO.

I don't know why you keep bringing the Crusades into it. Totally irrelevant IMO.

morine · 24/01/2010 15:40

Lollo, thank you for your post that?s very understanding. Unfortunately the area where I am living is racially divided. Mixed race people don?t seem to have any flavour of their non-white cultural background.
To be honest I am not upset anymore, I just feel sad for my children. That?s why I prefer not to tell them about race, they don?t know that they are mixed race, they don?t know that I am black and their dad is white. I prefer them not to know; otherwise it will affect them to see how white parents don?t want their white children and mixed race children to play with them. I don?t want them to have a negative image of white people because of the one in the area we are living.

If it goes on and they finally realise that their blackness is an issue for others, they had to do everything to be proud of it.

Many mixed race people with whom I talked told me that there is a big irony around the term ?mixed race?. There is a big racial gap in many places and mixed race children are suffering from it. We call them ?mixed race? but we don?t want them to mix.

When people reject you it just makes you more aware of the way you look and your racial difference, so you do everything to be proud of who you are.

My OP is also for mixed race people who have encountered or are encountering problems because of their blackness. They need to know that there is nothing wrong about their blackness, on the contrary it is something they need to be proud of.

Lollo, I do discuss a lot with mixed race people (when I have the opportunity), some have been brought up in a ?white? area by white families. They were called by derogative words even inside their own family. When they grew up and became more independent, they were trying to connect to their black side, but unfortunately it didn?t work because they were behaving like white people amongst black people. It wasn?t their fault as during their growing up no effort had been made to connect them with their black background.

I know one mixed race person who is very very bitter and confused about his identity, to the point that he is suffering from depression and paranoid. It is that person who said to me that the term ?mixed race? is an ironic racism. I really feel sad for him; I wish I could help him. We need to support those children/teenagers, but I don?t know how.

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morine · 24/01/2010 15:41

Oldeng and Joey, Joey I am very happy for your son, I have been brough up in the francophone world so I have no idea about any reference books.

I agree with you both, in my OP, I am also challenging the education system. I still can?t understand very well why in a multicultural society, the education system still remains westernized?

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 17:56

morine, where are you living?

joey, once again, i did understand your point, i just think that it's bogus to use it to support your position that racism pre-slavery was somehow different. science was simply the latest tool to use to persuade a population to act in a particular way, previously it had been religion. it's the same result, white population triumphant over vanquished dark population.

i can of course see why you'd want the crusades not to be relevant to your point about pre-slavery racism, because it disproves it, and no amount of changing the goalposts of your argument will change that. of course science had never been used before, it barely existed.

oldenglishspangles · 24/01/2010 18:22

Morine do you live in or near burnley by any chance?

lollopops · 24/01/2010 20:21

Aitch I was talking about society today. That'll teach me not to read your post properly...

lollopops · 24/01/2010 20:22

Morine, is it ok to email you?

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 20:30

sure, today you can make a case for being able to opt-out of religion, although i still think it would be a shaky one. i was brought up a catholic, for example, and while i don't go to mass any more or follow the religion particularly, i could no more say i was not a catholic than i could chop off my own head. religion is a culture in which one is steeped from birth, it's not something you choose.

plus if you gave up your religion because you were experiencing abuse for it, you would be giving in to the abusers. i don't think anyone would make the case for skin-lightening in order to appease racists, for example. so to suggest, as joey did, that one is a choice and the other isn't, well, it's simplistic and a bit offensive, really.

morine · 24/01/2010 21:09

lollo, please email me, if you can send me a C-A-M message with your email, or allow C-A-M messages from me to you, I'll send you my email address as I don't really want to post it on the public forum.

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morine · 24/01/2010 21:13

Aith and oldeng, I live in Berks near Windsor. In my opinion it is a cold area. There are mixed race families, particularly white mums with black dads, but we don't really pay attention to each other, what i find quite sad.

I have tried to make eye contact with a smile to the children but they just ignore.

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 21:19

weird, and awful for you. it's tough for anyone to move country, do you do all the usual things like going to toddler groups etc, and being v. involved in the school?

JoeyBettany · 24/01/2010 21:26

so aitch-if a particularly repressive government came to power, and said that unless all catholics immediately renounced their faith they would be killed, what would you do?

I know what i'd do, step into line sharpish-i know i wouldn't be a martyr for religion's sake!

btw am also a lapsed catholic -personally think culture is something you can pick and choose bits from to a certain extent.Not like your skin colour-although Michael Jackson gave it a good go.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 21:30

interestingly, i would almost certainly not renounce, repression would be much more likely to make me adhere to my religion seriously. certainly afaia there haven't been many christian converts in guantanamo, oppression is a sure-fire way to provoke fundamentalism.
even the guantanamo prisoners who were 'turned' into supposed spies for the americans were in fact triple agents.

morine · 24/01/2010 21:31

My fourth child is still a baby, It is a bit hard for the moment to be involved in the school but i will think about it when DS2 is a bit independant.

I don't go to toddler group anymore because people were very cold and very selective. There was even a mum with a mixed race child there, I tried to connect myself with her but I think she didn't think like me.

It is quite hard when you are not born in the area, the only friends i have are latinos and even they don't have children or their children are teenagers.

I think we will eventually move to another area when the children get a bit older.

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 21:38

meh, so you think one person didn't like you, forget about them, you really have to keep trying i think. are there no other toddler groups? swimming classes? gymboree? if you're the one who's moved into the area you do need to do a bit of work to become friends with people, i think. i would think it most unlikely that the south of england would have a terrific problem with mixed-race kids, it's more likely that people are in established social groups and you're going to have to pedal hard to crack them. (those englishers are a chilly people, we scots think.)

JoeyBettany · 24/01/2010 21:45

aitch-
that is a good point.

morine- i lived in London whilst with DH's dad and i definitely encountered more hostility there.

Now in a rural area, people are generally curious but friendly.We moved back in the summer to another rural market town and DS made friends quickly at his new school, and the one racist incident he did encounter was dealt with really well by the school.

I always smile at other non-white people/ mixed families that I see as well. Nice to know I'm not the only one

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 21:49

...whereas i just smile at everyone for i am sweetness and light.

oldenglishspangles · 24/01/2010 22:50

Morine - I agree with Aitch people in established friendships are not always open to new ones without quite a bit of work. I Found that places like tumble tots etc (where you go on a regular basis, it would start with a smile/ then a friendly comment and after a while a trip to the park) are best places for making friendships. I found the mother and toddler groups amazingly cliquey /chilly. Often, but not always, the people who have had to establish themselves in a new area far from friends and family are the most open to friendships. Perhaps you could arrange a berks mums meet up on here? I havent been to a meet up but there seem to be some genuine friendships that have started on here ( in between the hard hat pop corn munching moments- and I dont mean this thread)

morine · 24/01/2010 23:30

Believe me I have tried, I have even run a toddler group at a hall church. I have had 2 "friends", but I don't know it wasn't really this maybe, as i had to always make the effort, there was no effort coming from them, it was all one sided, and at the end of the day I just turn it into a reaction.

I went 3 times to the NCT meeting (a group of mums) in the area where I live. The first time I went I was very surprise to see that I was the only black. I wasn't uncomfortable as I used to stay amongst white people when I lived in France,in Spain, and in other countries. I felt a bit left out there. After 3 meetings i decided to host the group at my house. But again they were focused on themselves, almost ignoring me in my own home.

I have never got it from French, Spanish, Mexicans, and Eastern Europeans, I was very surprised, so I didn't want to go on. It is then i started to realise how much the area was racially divided.

I have created a mixed race families group, but it takes time for people to join. There are only two members for the moment, so we can't really run it in a regular basis. We shall see.

OP posts:
morine · 24/01/2010 23:35

Oh sorry i think we say " on a regular basis", where is my teacher ???

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 23:35

i think you have to keep trying, tbh, that sounds like you gave up quite quickly. why don't you and the other mum from your mixed race group just go along again to a toddler's group?

morine · 24/01/2010 23:36

Thats why English don't want to talk to me, because i make too much mistakes in their language, they are angry

OP posts:
morine · 24/01/2010 23:39

I have been trying during 5 years, now I am a bit tired and busy with 4 children.

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 24/01/2010 23:47

okay-doke. i'm sure once you have more time to get involved in stuff at school then things will get better.

lollopops · 26/01/2010 17:42

I think Aitch made a good point, about smiling at everyone. Not just people who are like ourselves. I hope one day Morine, it gets sorted, for you and your children.

I did try and email you but it wouldn't accept