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Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

216 replies

morine · 19/01/2010 23:47

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
morine · 26/01/2010 19:06

Lollo,

Sorry to hear that, can you email me on [email protected] in that case, that should definitely work.

OP posts:
morine · 26/01/2010 19:23

I used to smile to people who were looking at me when I was with my DH, but I noticed that they didn?t return the smile, and I was wondering ? what is the point to look at me if they don?t return the smile??, after I realized that they were just looking because we are mixed couple.

People only smile to me when I am with my children, I give them the smile back. I am still smiling to mixed race families even if they don?t seem to (want) to return the smile .

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 26/01/2010 22:35

you should just totally move. it's human instinct to return a smile, i think you're living among aliens.

morine · 27/01/2010 11:41

To be honest I do want to go back to France, but I don't know whether DH will easily find a job there as his French is "school french".

I think your right, I will give it another change by moving to South Bucks and see what will happen.

I miss France, it is so simple there for me and for the children. (home sick).

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 27/01/2010 12:38

you shoudl move to scotland, we talk all the time, to anyone who'll listen. and there is a really diverse mix of races, cultures and countries where dd goes to nursery. eleven languages, and there were six languages at her previous nursery. every day is a feast or a celebration in somebody's culture, so they have a good time. obv it depends where you live, but like you say, somewhere a bit more diverse would be easier.

morine · 29/01/2010 09:39

Wow, your DD seems to be in a real melting pot there. At school my first two children seem to mix better with indian and pakistani children, they can actually pass for indians as they have very soft wavy afro hair but their skin is a bit darker.

When they come back from school and nursery I hear things like : "I play with Usha, my friend is Osman, my sister is Rihana...".

I don't know if you remember the mixed race (scottish/pakistani)teenager in Scotland, I think her former name was "Molly". She ran away from her mum's house in Scotland and went and lived in the muslim culture of her pakistani father. I am wondering what did trigger her decision ? Maybe a generation conflict or something deeper ?

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 29/01/2010 16:03

who knows? there were rumours at the time that he was a bit of a controlling man, but it's quite ordinary fare for teenage girls of divorced parents to play one off against the other, i suppose. she seemed like a perfectly articulate girl in interviews, i'm sure she was doing what she wanted.

was at bounce and rhyme this afternoon, heard french, italian, polish, russian and spanish and some pals of ours all speaking english but who also have urdu, punjabi, farsi and other mother and father languages.

i really think the thing to do is get stuck in, morine, don't wait for people to smile back, just compliment them on something, their eyeshadow etc, so even if they're veiled you can always say something nice and friendly.

i think living near a university you do get the opportunity to meet cool people from all over, maybe if you're thinking of moving you should bear that in mind? and a bit of bounce and rhyme, while boring as all get out, is an easy way to make pals.

morine · 29/01/2010 17:27

I used to go to "teddy music club" when I had my first two children. I used to smile a lot to people because I did it in France, I used to go to them and start conversation. In France it has always worked but here it is not the case, at one stage I felt that they were showing me lack of respect. For example they will show me that they are not interested in talking with me but with my husband (who is white like them).

People in the area I am living seem to be very narrow-minded. They don't relate to foreigners, if they do it will be very superficial.

It is very good to see mixed race people talking both language of their cultural backgrounds. In my house, 4 languages are spoken (English, French, African, sometimes Spanish when the latinos come and visit). I still speak my african language, I haven't forgotten it, so I've thought I should teach it to the children too. They understand it but they don't always want to speak it. I can't be demanding as they are making already lot of effort with French. My DD2 (2 and a half) enjoy dancing, she has the african rhythm. Next year she will start Jazz dance and we can do african ballet at home, building up choregarphies... I am actually in search of drum percussions.

It is a lot of work to move when children are still very young, but I am sure within 5 years we will move to the South in a multicultural area. people should be open-minded there and smily .

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 29/01/2010 17:32

lord, i deffo think you should move, where you live they sound like a shower of shitbags.

Mumcentreplus · 29/01/2010 17:50

Sorry to hear you are having troubles morine

morine · 29/01/2010 19:49

Thank you

OP posts:
EldritchCleaver · 03/02/2010 15:20

"That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black."
and
"the slave in Africa wasn't like the slave outside Africa. The slave in Africa was free, he had a contract with his master and at the end of that contract he was free. He wasn't treated as bad as outside Africa."

Morine, I am going to try and give you the benefit of the doubt here as someone who does not sound as though English is her first language, but your posts do sound rather arrogant. I know you say you are responding to enquiries on other threads, but your posts do rather read as though you think mixed race people who don't identify themselves as black are mistaken and unaware of their history, needing to be informed of it by you. That is a massive and quite patronising generalisation, in my view.

Also, I have to say that while what your OP described certainly did happen, generalising it to be all peoples' experience and the single way how mixed race people originally came to be is inaccurate and deeply irritating to me. I have mixed West African and European heritage and from what I have been told, taught and read that is not true.

West Africa had many mixed communities in which slavery was not involved (the Danes were not slavers, for example, and married their African partners-the well-known Ghanaian missionary and teacher Carl Reindorf was from such a family).

African slavery was vicious, as all slavery has been throughout history. It is simply nonsense to suggest Africans were nicer about it. While the basic humanity of the slaves was not denied, you could still get raped, sold to Europeans, killed and exploited and your life was not your own, so what was the difference? That kind of special pleading is as revolting as it is inaccurate.

morine · 03/02/2010 17:44

Eldritch, I am sorry if you find my OP offensive, arrogant and patronising. It wasn't my intention. My thread is not about slavery, I believe it is more about trying to understand "black" "blackness".

You say :I know you say you are responding to enquiries on other threads, but your posts do rather read as though you think mixed race people who don't identify themselves as black are mistaken and unaware of their history, needing to be informed of it by you. That is a massive and quite patronising generalisation, in my view.

I am very sorry Eldritch that you have this view about my OP. I am not dictating mixed race to identify as black, this is not me. I know mixed race people who don't identify themselves as black but as mixed race, I have absolutly NO Problem about it. True my mother tongue is not English so it doesn't help, but please don't beleive that i am trying to force people to identify themselves as black.

Again I am not generalising my Op to all peoples' experience, maybe I should have mentioned african mixed races/caribbean mixed races but this wasn't the aim, the aim was just to reply to few obscure points about "black". Please understand that I have never been living in a racially divided place, I have never known about "mixed race issue", so when I saw that people were asking questions in the other thread, I thought I would TRY to clarify things. I know that some mixed races don't face discrimnination, but I know that some do because of their blackness. I am African myself, in my native country we have many mixed races who don't identify themselves as "black" or "mixed race" but with african ethnicities.

About slavery in Africa, according my secondary school lessons, slavery happened in some places in Africa in forms of hard labour.

There again, I am not trying to give a lesson to people. I am really sorry that you took my OP in the way it wasn't mean to, many people have misunderstood it by thinking that I was trying to force people to identify themslves as black, thats why I didn't want to get in arguments and conversations too much, I was talking more with people who understood where I was coming from. It is a very sensitive subject and I have been hesitating before posting, i even asked the moderator to remove the thread because I don't like people feeling offended by what I write.

Again, I am really sorry that my OP has offended you. Having said it, it will be very interesting to know about your mixed race experience and I am sure many mums would like to know a bit too, so we can have a wider view.

OP posts:
morine · 03/02/2010 18:43

Slavery didn't happen in my country either but if you feel I have generalised it to be everyone's experience, I apologise. True I should have paid more attention living in a racially complex place, you see yourself I am learning too

OP posts:
EldritchCleaver · 03/02/2010 21:31

Ok, cool. I think your OP probably came across as more dogmatic than your actual views. Thanks for your answer.

arronsmum · 05/01/2012 12:38

im now in my 50s( black african dad/white mum.)and i would be offended if i was refered to as black Such rubbish is written in this site. the word half caste was commonly used to refer to us in the 70s/80s,NOT BLACK.my children refer to me(theyre quarter caste,but look white)as half caste. i dont like the word mixed race.to me it means 1 is a mix of any race but can be white,ie half french,half scottish.half caste from what ive always presumed meant 1 black parent ,1 white.

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