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Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

216 replies

morine · 19/01/2010 23:47

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

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edam · 20/01/2010 16:14

nickel - in March '45 when my mother must have been conceived, there will have been troops and emigrants from all over the world in London. Goodness only knows what nationality or race my grandfather could have been!

morine · 20/01/2010 16:21

Edam how do you describe the colour of your skin and your hair texture? What about your face features?

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morine · 20/01/2010 16:25

There are black people who can produce white babies with a white partner, above all if the black partner has several white ancestors.

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edam · 20/01/2010 16:54

Oh, I'm not pretending to be Black at all! Very pale white skin. Have been taken for Irish (a lot) and Jewish (once or twice, apparently it's the very dark brown curly hair). Went bridesmaid's dress shopping with an Irish friend and was asked if we were sisters - she is a good six inches taller than me and has gorgeous straight red hair!

My mother's heritage is just an idle thought that occurs occasionally. And just possibly might surprise us if we ever found out the truth.

verylittlecarrot · 20/01/2010 16:59

morine, I don't think I did miss your point, truly. I think you have explained why some people of mixed race, those descended from slave ancestors, prefer to describe themselves as black. No problem there.

I wasn't aware that you were addressing some specific points from another thread though!

I do think it is unusual when someone of mixed race but no history of slavery in their past identifies so strongly with a particular group that in fact they don't share a common history with. When I lived in Africa, people I knew rarely described themselves as black or African, even sometimes not describing themselves as Malawian, but more commonly identifying themselves according to their tribe or religion.

I've re-read your post, and I think what comes across is the suggestion that ALL mixed race people of black descent share this common history. I'm sure that isn't what you intended to convey, but your phrasing strongly suggests that you haven't given any thought to those mixed race people who cannot identify with the heritage you refer to.

Hence my post!

And, yes, my children are mixed race, in that their father has black African paternity and white European maternity. I describe them as mixed race as I feel it is important to acknowledge their grandfather's heritage, in particular because he passed away a long time ago. There is not, to my knowledge, any hint of oppression or slavery within my deceased FIL's past.

However, if forced to pigeonhole her, I think most people would say my daughter looks white, and I'm not sure her African genes are expressing themselves obviously yet in her features. My son, well, he'll be here in a couple of weeks so I'll report back when I get a good look! I do wonder how they will describe their own children.

Don't cancel the thread - there is room for intelligent discussion on this topic as Edam says. We can all learn something, I feel.

nickelbabe · 20/01/2010 17:00

edam: i'm in the same situation: my mum (adopted) was born in jan 48, so there were still a lot of GIs and POWs around and of course, displaced Jews etc. So I could have anything in my genese too!

DuelingFanjo · 20/01/2010 17:04

I think you are wrong OP to think that all mixed race people want to be called 'mixed race'. Many mixed race people call themselves black.

Or maybe I am misunderstanding?

Was reading an article with Maria Carey this weekend in which she said she considers herself black because of her mixed heritage. She said if you mix white and black you still get black. Maybe she is just identifying more with the black part of her heritage? I don't know.

edam · 20/01/2010 17:14

Funny to think that one of Hitler's legacies is an awful lot of genetic mingling thanks to all those young men travelling round the world and doing what young men do.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:16

Verylittle carrot, sorry to hear about your grandfather.

I do want to cancel it as I find that people tend to misinterprete it and get the wrong idea.

I didn't say that all mixed race are black slave descendants, although there is no shame about it.

In another thread, some mums were saying that they couldn't understand why people tend to identify mixed race people as Black. Someone even said that she couldn't bear the media refering to B. Obama as a black person. There were other says I found quite offending. So I have tried to explain why a mixed race person tend to be refer as Black.

I didn't talk about mixed race choosing to identify themselves as Black. I didn't talk about any choice of identification from mixed race people. I HAVE TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT THIS HABIT TO IDENTIFY A MIXED RACE PERSON AS BLACK ACTUALLY DATES FROM THE SLAVERY. That why I have tried to explain with all the details.

As was saying it is up to the individual. thats why if Obama has chosen to identify himself as Black, why people say : I can't bear Obama be called black?

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MrsMattie · 20/01/2010 17:20

Mariah lives in the USA, though. Such a different kettle of fish to the UK. It's almost liked your forced to 'choose your tribe' in America. So Obama is black in the USA.

He is also mixed. But America isn't ready for that yet.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:21

DuelingFanjo,
What can I say again. What can I do? This is the danger with such a post. Everybody interprete it at his own way.

Mariah Carey idenfies herself more with her black side. I guess it is her own experience. she has her own perception of her blackness. Thats why many mixed race would have different experience and would identify themselves according to.

Ok, we are going to vote. who want the post to be canceled ?

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edam · 20/01/2010 17:22

I think it's a useful thread, don't get it pulled. Interesting discussion.

Have you not been on MN long? Only you might want to be aware that block caps have the effect of shouting and tend to rub people up the wrong way.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:23

Thank you MrsMattie, I think you understand where i come from with my OP.

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morine · 20/01/2010 17:25

Thank you edam, I actually think that you were white mediteranean. I wish I could be like you who just identify himslef as "human being". Do you really want to find out about yourself, be careful it might make things complicated

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edam · 20/01/2010 17:30

Blimey, you can tell my ethnicity without even meeting me but just from being told about white skin and dark brown curly hair? That's a bit of a leap. (Although it's a possibility, when my Mother went to Spain people kept telling her she must be Spanish. Mind you, she has straight black hair...)

edam · 20/01/2010 17:31

(Human being on a good day, you'd really wonder if you bumped into me first thing in the morning before I've had a cup of tea and washed my hair!)

zoggs · 20/01/2010 17:33

I am white and have 3 mixed race children. They all know they have an important heritage from slavery. DS1 looks completely black - most people are shocked to discover he is at least 50% white genetically. DD looks Asian - even Asian people ask her if she is from Pakistan or India and DS2 looks white - curly blonde hair, think Harpo Marx.

They all choose to call themselves mixed race but I wouldn't mind if they called themselves black. Eldest 2 could never call themselves white but youngest one could easily. A lot is about other people's perceptions. Sorry, didn't read the other thread but it is an interesting subject.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 17:37

i'm curious as to your heritage, morine, and do you speak english as a first language?
did you all see that programme recently about 'are mixed race people superior?' or something like that? it was really interesting, made a stand-up case for genetic mixing on a continental scale leading to stronger, prettier, cleverer children.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:39

Thank you so much zoggs, this is an encouragement too. I also have a spanish friend with 3 mixed race girls who are quite dark of skin, when i saw them for the first time i didn't know that their mum was white.

I will also let my children to choose by themselves really we can't impose and force them an identity.

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heQet · 20/01/2010 17:41

[thick emoticon] Should slavery not be a shameful and disgusting part of history and taught as such to help avoid such things ever happening again? (And that includes the fact that the slaves brought out of Africa were largely sold by their own people!)

Should it be taught to our children as who they are? I don't think I want to teach my children that they are descended from people who sold their brothers and cousins and friends to white people. What message would I be trying to tell them by that? How would it help them in any way in life? What would I be trying to make them become? What would be the purpose?

Yes - teach history. The fact that people have been used as slaves - black people and white people - and teach how disgraceful that was, and how all humans are equal but am I alone in wanting my children to be who they are, right now? In this day and age? They have no experience of slavery, and I fear that we teach our children to hold onto anger through the generations. There are people alive today who are personally angry about what was done to them. But they were never slaves, their parents were never slaves... they have been taught that feeling, it's not theirs iyswim.

I don't want my children to be their colour, to feel they have to think a certain way because of their colour. I just want them to be who they are and to live their life in the here and now.

Does that make any sense to anyone?

morine · 20/01/2010 17:45

AitchtwoOhOneOh, and what about yours ?. Something tells me that you are mixed race. .

French is my first language, I have been living in France for many years and i didn't encounter this problem about mixed race identification. I don't know whether it is specific to the UK. First of all in France there is no ethnic form to tick, when i came in the UK and saw that form I was very shocked, and i still hate it, most of the time I tick nothing.

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zoggs · 20/01/2010 17:46

Aitch - my daughter saw that programme and likes to agree with the sentiments!

As an aside, my elder children who definitely don't look white have lots of black and Asian friends whereas my youngest has mostly white friends. I haven't decided what I think of that yet.

verylittlecarrot · 20/01/2010 17:46

perfect sense, HeQet. Super post.

morine · 20/01/2010 17:48

HeQet, and vlc, as usual you miss the point.

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AitchTwoOhOneOh · 20/01/2010 17:49

not unless you count irish and scots, morine.

it was a really interesting show, zogg, basically saying that mixed race people get the best of everything genetically, whereas us whiteys, whether from latvia or wales, have pretty much the same genetic material to share so nothing comes to the fore.