Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

[morine]

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

Aitch...,

I want to make it clear, I didn't want to argue with people who were focusing on slavery as it wasn't the original intention, otherwise people get distracted. Hope this make sense.

Don't worry those people will read the post, i am not going to name people here.

Good point tanmu82!

Thanks Aitch, I was finding it a little tiresome and rather rude to be told I'm missing the point 'as usual'.

I get it morine. Loud and clear. You've described how society has come to often define ALL mixed race people as black.

That doesn't make the practice universally acceptable in 2010. In fact, the practice of defining ALL mixed race as black, IS offensive to some people in this current age.

Just because a common practice
(such as referring to a person as black rather than mixed race) can be explained in terms of history, doesn't mean that practice is appropriate now. Language evolves, and a practice once deemed acceptable may now be inappropriate or even offensive.

This debate and discussion has evolved. No-one has really disagreed with your explanation of the history behind the terms.

What we are now debating is whether it is appropriate or justified to still think that way, or whether it is time for our thought processes to evolve.

I would say that on this thread - and only on this thread - the general majority (although not all of course) are suggesting that many people of mixed race prefer to be described as such, and do not wish to be called black. If that is the case, then I think it is important to challenge the practice. History notwithstanding. It's just not good enough for you to say "this is why we've always done things this way".

That doesn't make things right.

I don't object to Obama describing himself as black, despite his mixed race, despite the fact that it seems he isn't descended from slave ancestry.

I do object to people assuming that 'black' is the more appropriate term for all mixed race people of African descent and is a justifiable practice, if it causes offence to do so.

terminology is important.

Now morine, once again I've acknowledged your point. What do you think of mine?

Vlc - very good post.

It is 2010. Let us move on.

It is not good enough to say it has "always" been this way, so we should continue (with the practice of saying he/she is "black" because....)

The majority of the mixed race people I know identify themselves as "mixed race".

They also specify a national/cultural sub group i.e. "I'm English mixed race" or "I'm a mixed race Goth" "I'm Scottish and proud"

People too often mix up (pun intended) terminology relating to Race, Nationality, Culture, Ethnicity etc

(We can only actually be one Race - human - but for the sake of the debate, Race here is interchangable with Ethnicity)

verylittlecarrot, maybe you would be offended at your children being referred to as 'black' over 'mixed race', but as your children are actually just 1/4 black, few people are likely to make that 'mistake'. Speaking as someone who is very obviously not white, I take absolutely no offence at being referred to as black. In fact I am proud. Why are you so indignant over the use of 'black' to describe mixed race? I don't know any mixed race person who would take offence - I actually think that those who prefer to be called 'mixed race' are in the minority and I don't suppose even they would actually take offence to being called black. Why should we? It's not a bad thing to be black so why should it be offensive? I am really struggling with your use of that word in this context.

As with almost all debates/discussions surrounding the mixed race experience, the Middle American (United States) viewpoint is brought to the fore: This simply does not apply to the majority of mixed race people in Europe/Commonwealth.

The majority of black people in Europe now are direct descendant African economic migrants.

tanmu - the majority of mixed race I know do object to being referred to as black.

I believe the majority of (black/white) mixed race people living here (Britain) identify as mixed race.

From a pendants point of view, it is simply incorrect to be called (ethnically) black, if one is mixed race (ethnic).

Identifying oneself as Culturally as "black" is an another debate.

i'm struggling with the fact that you seem to be determined to paint vlc as saying something particularly controversial, tanmu. here's what she wrote, i've bolded the bits that you seem to have missed.

"That doesn't make the practice universally acceptable in 2010. In fact, the practice of defining ALL mixed race as black, IS offensive to some people in this current age."

some people want to identify themselves as mixed race rather than black, for their own reasons. is that not okay? surely mariah carey isn't setting the law on this?

The original post was quite interesting until slavery was mentioned. People need to be reminded that although whites bought and used slaves it was Africans that sold them.

it's hardly equivocal, though, is it? not a proud part of anyone's history, but white people really ran with the ball...

I didn't say anything about Mariah Carey...paint vlc as controversial? Because I am uncomfortable with her use of a certain word and questioned it in 1 post? How does that make me determined to paint her as anything? That comment was a bit full on and totally unwarranted imo. Am I not allowed to state my opinion and experience as every other person has done so far? Why make me out to be on some sort of witch hunt?

caramelwaffle, we could do the 'I think...' 'I believe....' thing all day, but the fact is we are going on our experiences alone and cannot presume to know the minds of every person concerned out there.... and my experience is obviously very different to yours. And in my first post I said that I prefer to be called black because it is the culture I identify with

but it wasn't even slightly full-on, as demonstrated by the two occasions that she qualified her statement in the space of about twenty-five words. some people do find it offensive, don't you accept that? or is it your way or the high way?

I meant your comment, about me being determined to paint her as being controversial because I questioned her use of a word, was full on. I only adressed vlc in one brief post. Hardly determined.

Thank heavens for you Aitch. I wrote a huge post to tanmu but deleted it. I was really concerned by the sinister undertones of her post and what she might be implying. It wasn't just me who read it that way, it seems.

tanmu, here's the potted version of my post.

Position 1: Some mixed race people prefer to identify themselves as black. their reasons for this might be many and complex. I fully support and respect this preference.

Position 2: Some mixed race people prefer to identify themselves as white. their reasons for this might be many and complex. I fully support and respect this preference.

Position 3: Some mixed race people prefer to represent themselves in a more 'technically accurate' way, as 'mixed race'. They want to acknowledge ALL parts of their heritage, and feel to deny either side is to belittle part of their family and dismiss part of their identity. They feel and respect and want to express the equality of their parentage. I fully support and respect this preference too.

Offense is caused when other people impose their own agenda and assume that position 1 is the default preference. As in "you are mixed race, so of course you must prefer to be described as black". In a situation of doubt, I personally would err on the side of caution and use the 'accurate' position 3 until I fully understood the individual's feelings on the matter.

I hope that dispels any confusion.

what nonsense. read your post, it's hardly brief and amongst other things you say 'why are you so indignant about mixed race people being called black' when there isn't a whit of indignance in her posts at all. maybe you're projecting your own misplaced indignance onto her?

my only confusion is why my post prompted such an agressive response. Obviously anyone who dares question you guys is in for a rough ride. I'm outta here. Said my piece, have no desire to be attacked anymore

i read what you read, vlc. and i agree with your most recent post, fwiw.

tanmu, you made a point that you would take no offense if someone described you as black, despite being aware of yur mixed race background. A perfectly reasonable position, obviously.

May I ask, would you be offended if someone else described you as white, precisely because they knew of your mixed race background? As in, "I assume you prefer to be called white because it is part of your heritage too"

aggressive? jeez. you clearly don't have a clue how you're coming across here.

Exactly tanmu - Your experience, my experience, his experience, her experience.

Until there is a questionnaire that specifically targets people of a 3/4 - 1/2 - 1/4 - 1/8 etc black/other ethnicity mix and asks the question "Does one consider oneself black or mixed race or white or asian or other, the we won't, for a fact, know.

It is not enough to say to people this is my/ours/the media/Obama's viewpoint so it makes it so.

To put another slant on this, a great number of black African -grew up in, and are still living in Africa - people refer to mixed race people as white.

Should therefore mixed race people living in Europe as refer to themselves as white?

tanmu, don't go. I know this is a hugely sensitive topic and I am genuinely interested in having a polite and civil discussion with you.

I'm trying very hard not to feel attacked by your post to me! I'm hoping I misinterpreted the subtle implied accusation of racism in there.

Do you understand why I used the term offense and in what context it might be valid?

Another very good post vlc

the post of 00.12hr

Thank you, Aitch and caramelwaffle. your name is giving me cravings, BTW) It's bloody scary posting on a topic like this as the risk of stomach churning accusations always lies just around the corner. But I recall quite recently the terminology the BNP chose to use to describe mixed race people, my dh, my precious child (-ren) and I feel I have a right to an opinion on the language we use, and the effect it has.

Nommm nommm nommm {munching waffle. Slides half to vlc. Pours on some more caramel sauce}

Enjoy

Language is VERY important and can be mis-used in so many ways.

Not up to date with the latest crap terminology the BNP are using to describe mixed race people/families. Might mosey on over to Stormfront (spits) for a lurk.

But yes; the possibility of accusations does always lie on a topic like this.