Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Multicultural families

Here's where to share your experience of raising a child or growing up in a multicultural family.

Understanding the mixed races'(from black descent) black identity

216 replies

morine · 19/01/2010 23:47

Being a black person with mixed race ancestors, I am quite interested in the mixed race (from black descent) population.

For a whole year I have been trying to understand why there is a confusion in the identification of mixed race people (black descent) in the UK, especially about them being called black instead of mixed race.

I have noticed that this confusion is due to various reasons but the main one is the ignorance by many (white, black and mixed race themselves) about the significant heritage the mixed race owns due to his black background.

That?s why I am going to try to help people to understand the mixed race blackness and black identity, and why he has always been called black.

Just a quick clarification about ?black?. The term ?Black? is used to identify black Africans and their descendants. That means black people from the motherland (Africa) and the Diaspora (black people/African descendants outside the mother continent. Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians.

Back to history :
African people were deported in slavery from their continent to Europe, America and the Caribbean islands. They were sold as slaves to white landlords. The history of mixed race people starts when white masters sexually abused their female black slaves. The children of black slaves and their white masters were slaves. In spite of being mixed race/half white, they were not considered as human beings but as properties just like the pure black slaves.

Mixed race slaves in time of slavery were also working hard in fields and factories just like black slaves. Their punishment was the same as the ones inflicted on black slaves. Generally when a slave had been desobedient, he was beaten badly, sometimes to death, he was castrated, he would have one or several limbs of his body amputated (hands, arms, nose, ears?). Mixed race slaves as well as black slaves were passing through the same type of punishment.
Black women and teenagers as well as mixed race women and teenagers were raped by their white masters. This was due to the fact that at that time, a slave wasn?t a human being, he didn?t have any rights, he was the property of his white master and his master had the right to do whatever he wanted with his slave.
During a period of time, slaves became more and more expensive on the market. To save money, the white master sexually abused his black or mixed race slave to have her bear children (so more slaves). The mixed race children born from the black/mixed race slaves were the property of the white master. A woman slave could have up to 15 mixed race children born slaves. The white master could do whatever he wanted with the mixed race slave children. He would use some for work and he would sell others to other white masters to build up his finances. So at that time, families were also separated.

The black slave child as well as the mixed race slave child started to learn their slave work very early, around 5/6 years old. Generally they used to start to work and help their mother in the fields. Then when they got older, stronger and more robust, they would have their own slave work and work separately from their mother.
It is also important to underline that the Black African has very strong characteristics (physical features, skin colour, hair, physical strength?) that the mixed race has also inherited, which makes him more black than white ( I know there are special cases but here I am talking in general and in time of slavery).

It also happened that the white master?s wife cheated on him with a black/mixed race slave. The mixed race child born whether from a black/mixed race slave, or from a white woman was considered as a slave. Generally the white woman, even if she wanted to raise her mixed race child, she would not be able to as it was a shame for a white woman to have a black/mixed race baby, almost a crime at that time, so she would give the baby to a slave who would raise the child.
The slavery of black and mixed race people (1/2 & 1/4 black) lasted in total about 400 years.

At one period in history, towards the end of the slavery, the 1/4 black became a ?privileged? slave because of the lightness of his skin. This particular mixed race slave was always a bit controversal. He had less burdensome slave work or he would supervise the work of the other slaves. When a punishment had to be applied, he would inflict the punishment to the disobedient slaves under the orders of his white master. That?s why the 1/4 black slave sometimes was seen as a traitor by the black and mixed race (1/2) slaves.
In spite of this, all three slaves, the black, the mixed race 1/2 black and the mixed race 1/4 black, were properties. They all needed a letter of emancipation from their white master to be set free.

After the abolition of slavery, the black, the 1/2 black and the 1/4 black were free. Now they faced the white opression through the segregation and discrimination. They build their own culture and identity : The Black.

The civil right movement didn?t only involved black people, it also involved mixed race people (1/2
and 1/4 black). During that movement all of the three were fighting together under one identity and for one race : the black race. Black people stood up for mixed race people as they were in majority, and on the other hand mixed race also stood up for black people. Because they were 1/2 and 3/4 white, it was easier for them to be received and speak in front of the white authorities in the name of the entire black race. Black people and mixed race people were organizing marches, strikes, demonstrations, boycotts? to fight under one identity and for the dignity of one race : the Black one.

Black people and mixed race people are not only linked by their blood but also by their History and culture, by what they have experienced together, and by what they have fought for.

There is no confusion here about mixed race people identifying themselves as Black, they have the best reasons to do so. The confusion comes from those who have a lack of knowledge about the History, and I perfectly understand it. The history of black people (mixed race included) is not a priority in a westernized education system.

The mixed race of black descent is not like the other mixed races. The mixed race of black descent is unique, he is part of the History and the culture of black people. Not only is he part of them but he has also contributed to their building up.
So, that?s why instead of pigeonholing themselves in a less specific and vague term ?mixed race?, they are often identified as Black.

Having said that I will support the post of someone in a previous thread who said that being Black doesn?t refer to the colour of the skin, it is being part of a History and culture. It is being involved in the building up of a heritage and identity.

Why people don?t tell the true story to those who need to know?

?Black? should not be used in terms of colour. It is not an identity based on the colour of the skin but an identity based on a History, an experience and a culture. That?s why celebrities like Mariah Carey, who has a very light mixed race skin, identifies herself as Black.
Black slaves had different skin tones, from the very dark black shade to the very light one. The blackness goes far beyond the notion of colour.

Mixed race of black descent are special. They are not like the other mixed races. They have a black identity, strongly and directly linked with their black heritage, beyond the skin appearance. Their black heritage is uncomparable to their white heritage, they are active and involved in their black History, they made it, but they are passive in their white History. Their white heritage limits itself through the blood link, but their black heritage goes far beyond it.

Today mixed race people are totally free to choose how they want to be identified, it is a personal choice we all have to respect, but it is important that they understand their black identity and their blackness. If we respect the choice of those who identify themselves as mixed race, why shouldn?t we also respect the choice of those who have chosen to identify themselves as Black?

Mixed race of black descent have a history (they share with black people), that?s what makes them different to other mixed race. That?s why I find it a bit unfair to pigeonhole them in the same term (mixed race) as the other mixed race people.

I don?t know whether the term ?Black? is the right one but at least I believe it is perfectly justified. However the term ?mixed race?, although it defines their race duality, I just feel that it is not enough to identify this minority of light skinned black people who have suffered the burden of slavery and shed their blood in the process of promoting the value of the Black race.

Would it be better to combine the two? The term ?Black? for the recognition of their involvement in the black heritage and "mixed-race" for the recognition of their race duality?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Chunkyrice · 22/01/2010 11:53

Really interesting thread. Have only read a little - but will read all when i have time.

Quick note to OP, apols if it has already been mentioned:
"Indians are not identified as black but as East Asians."

People from India are geographically known as South Asians. China etc is East Asia, and south of that, eg Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia etc is South-East Asian.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 22/01/2010 11:54

with the greatest respect, morine, you really must stop presenting your opinion as fact.

morine · 22/01/2010 11:55

For people who might have misunderstood my thread.

As Couchitingress said, when a mixed race says to you that he is Black, he doesn't refer himself to the colour of his skin, he refers to his culture. Tamnu is mixed race but he identify himself as Black, black is not the colour, black is the culture he feels he belongs to or he feels he is attracted by.

My post went in this way, even a mixed race brought in a white family can say that he is Black. But this doesn't refer to the coulour of his skin, this refers to the culture he feels he is attracted by.

Hope there is less confusion, I think it is important that you white know about it.

OP posts:
morine · 22/01/2010 11:55

sorry i wanted to say you white mums

OP posts:
edam · 22/01/2010 12:46

Morine, those forms are used to collect data so public services and companies can see whether the services they provide are taken up equally by people from whichever group you are talking about - this could be gender/race/religion/disability/sexual orientation. So they can check they are not excluding anyone. BUT no-one has to answer - you can choose whichever box you like or none.

My godmother always refuses to fill them in as for her generation, who fought Hitler, it smacks a little too much of an obsession with racial purity, even though logically she knows why it is done.

Btw, I think there are people from a variety of backgrounds, identities and experiences contributing to this thread. Not just 'white mums'.

And I know you are writing in a second language and French uses 'le' or 'la' not 'the' but generally for reasons of gender equality, in this country, it is not done to refer to everyone as 'he'. It's 'she or he' or 'him or her' or, more simply, 'they'.

So I'd write 'When someone who identifies as mixed race tells you they...' Or 'When someone who is mixed race tells you they' (although I'd go with 'identifies' as it's not up to me to label anyone else).

morine · 22/01/2010 12:56

Sorry Chunkyrice, you are right.

To Aitch, remember I am not from here so I have an excuse

OP posts:
morine · 22/01/2010 13:03

Thank you edam, I will try to apply the lesson, but I am a very bad student at the moment .

About the form, to be honest all I can see is that it triggers race discussions and consequently offenses, race is a vey sensitive subject.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 22/01/2010 13:11

i have been at great pains to bear that in mind, morine.

for the record, i don't think that anyone has misunderstood your OP, we are not stupid women. i just think that in some cases they wanted to probe further whether your declared terminology was sufficient in this day and age, whether having a slave heritage makes a difference, and also whether your experience chimed with their own experience and that of our friends and family.

tbh it's not a lecture we're after here on MN, more a discussion, so if one party is unprepared to think further on a subject it's hard to have any sort of conversation.

morine · 22/01/2010 13:20

I know what you mean Aitch, I should have put Crouchitigress post first, maybe it would have been clearer. I hope you finally know where i was coming from when i posted the first time.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 22/01/2010 13:22

stop with this 'finally' business, morine. i have understood your point from the beginning, i just think that it is too simplistic and doesn't allow for change, so basically i just don't agree with it.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 22/01/2010 13:26

crouchingtigress didn't explain it any more clearly than you did, by the way. you both made your points fine.

morine · 22/01/2010 13:39

ok Aitc, thats the most important, not to be misunderstood.

OP posts:
morine · 22/01/2010 13:58

No offence here.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOhOneOh · 22/01/2010 21:47

none here either. welcome to mn, morine. see you around.

rasputin · 22/01/2010 22:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morine · 23/01/2010 07:43

Oh no no!!! Raspu i didn't mean it, I didn't mean it in this way. I meant lot of prejudices and derogative words come from slavery and unfortunately people get affected by them, by those derogative names or words coming from what has happened in the past, not by slavery directly.

For example I don't have slave ancestors but when a racist person calls me with a derogative words, it can affect me, even if I am not directly linked with the slavery, it is the derogative word which can affects me not the slavery. But I know that those derogative words and prejudices come from what has happened in the past. Anyway I am proud of who I am and the way I have been brought up, and I don't envy anybody.

I know few mixed race people who said to me that a family focused Mum would raise her mixed race children in a multicultural area, so that they will have both flavours of their cultural backgrounds, so I guess if you are living in a multicultural place your boys would be ok.

You are like me too, i don't want my children to focus on the notion of race, it is really unhealthy for the society, and for peoples' minds. I haven't been brought up in a racially divided society and to be honest I don't want my children to grow up this way.

If your children face discrimination or other things, just help them to be strong and not let it affect them.

OP posts:
morine · 23/01/2010 07:59

To AitchTwo

I don't know if you saw I sent an email to ask if this was possible to close the thread.

Living in a predominantly white area with a dinstinct race gap, I don't really talk with English people. I actually talk more French with my children and Spanish with the latinos who live in my area, sometimes I have the impression to be more in Mexico than in England . Maybe thats why I made so many mistakes in English, but fortunately I have my teacher (edam) to help me .

To be honest with you dear, I did it on purpose to start this thread, as I can't speak that much with English people, I wanted to understand better about the racial gap, and what are in the minds of people. Thats why I didn't want to get too much in conversation.

Please, would it be better to close the thread to avoid more conflicts ?

OP posts:
LuckyJim · 23/01/2010 08:00

Personally I don't think slavery could ever have existed without racism.I don't think slavery made people racist. I think racism made people able to justify slavery. I'm sure slavery and the subsequent segragation made people more racist but we weren't a wonderful colour blind society before then.

Why did you ask that mixed race man 'what is wrong with being black'?. He didn't say there was anything wrong with being black, he just said that he wasn't. If you had called him John and he had said 'actually, my name is Paul' would you have said 'what is wrong with being called John'. My mixed race dcs are very white looking. If someone called them white i may correct them but that doesn't mean I think there is something wrong with being white.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 23/01/2010 10:00

i'm not completely sure why you keep addressing me in particular, morine, but mnhq don't close threads, it's not their policy.
welcome to mn, like i say, i'm sure it will be a great place to practice your english.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 23/01/2010 10:02

oh, and v good point, jim, about racism pre-dating slavery. some of the things said and done during the crusades... ye gods, when actually the middle east was all about the maths and science and literature.

JoeyBettany · 23/01/2010 12:13

When I studied the history of slavery I discovered that the concept of racism, i.e certain racial groups deemed to be inferior was deliberately and calculatedly constructed in order to justify slavery in the supposed civilised period of the Enlightenment.

Pre-Enlightenment, in the age of Shakespeare,racism did not exist as we know it today. For example, Othello, the Moor, is acknowledged as foreign and maybe 'other' but certainly not as a sub human species.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 23/01/2010 12:17

yes, but that is to make racism all about black history. the christians did the same snow-job on the infidels, in order to justify the crusades. and anti-semitism in the sense of dehumanising a race was rife in shakespearean times, hence 'if you prick me, do i not bleed'.

JoeyBettany · 23/01/2010 12:20

Edward Long, a plantation owner, was one of the most influential constructors of this then new racism, cynically used to justify enormous economic gain.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Long

JoeyBettany · 23/01/2010 12:26

I personally think this was a different way of categorizing and dehumanising whole populations of people on the basis their skin colour.

Of course people had been discriminated and attacked because of religious and cultural difference in the past.

But slavery was the first time people were regarded as scientifically sub human. And the reason for this was to justify slavery to a christian population when it was condemned in the bible.

oldenglishspangles · 23/01/2010 12:29

There is a certain irony to racisim. Diluting the gene pool is more likely to stengthen it than weaken it. You only have to look at pedgree animal breeding to see the potential pitfalls.