Husband has hid HUGE debts!!!

[Pixiedust70]

I've been married 18 years, and have 2 teenagers. I feel so sick right now, I don't know what to do. I knew he had debt as we renovated a house we bought 4 years ago, but he earns a good wage and I trusted him to manage it. We had no debt moving in here, so in 4 years he's ran up £116,000 in debt. I never thought it was possible to even get that amount of debt. I'm so upset, I don't even know how I feel, I'm just numb. I have lost all trust in him, I'm also a childminder, so if the house goes, so does my job. I'll have nothing 😞
I suppose I just want an outsider perspective because I can't speak to my friends as it's too embarrassing

Sorry op. From experience this does sound like gambling. I'd ask to go through his bank / emails and see exactly where the money has gone, he's obviously in some real trouble and there's no way of sorting it out until theres 100% transparency.

He will have accounts OP, probably online. It's no longer up to him OP, you need to tell him that you need the facts and figures - now - and get him to send it to you. He can put the info in a text if need be. There are things that concern me tbh - the fact that the house is in his name not joint names, the fact that he ran up debts previously and you bailed him out, the fact that you seem to have so little knowledge about the family finances in general. I'm not excusing him, but as wife and mother of his children you should have some clue about what things are costing and where your family money is going - for example the house renovations. How can you have no idea what these cost? I'm not suggesting you should know it down to the penny, but to have no idea at all is ridiculous. Going forward you need to be involved in the household finances - given his history with money, anything else would be foolish.

Be prepared to find out that the debt is even bigger than he has admitted to. Ask me how I know....

Good luck.

Also, this.

Make sure he shares all of his statements and credit record when he is back

That’s the last thing he will want to do. He’s already avoiding accountability, and doesn’t seem to recognise his own culpability, I’m calling he’ll either get angry at OP for asking (as she should) or will find a reason not to. Hope I’m wrong but he doesn’t seem the type to want OP or anyone else rightly holding a mirror up.

I’m sorry op but take“busy body” ,”competitive“, “two motorbikes” and protective of hid phone and id say this is 100% the perfect candidate for gambling addictions. He sounds like he’s always looking for the next hit, the next project, the next “win”. And gambling dings that bell like heroin and is incredibly addictive. You don’t even need to like sports as such, I have a friend who’s husband spent £24k in the first lockdown betting against digital hamster and guinea pig racing and virtual slots ( I’m not joking!). He even set up a new PayPal accc with a similar named link to pay the rent to himself instead of the landlord to keep his scam going and my poor mate was funding his habit and getting deeper into debt while he was showing her fake rent payments and crying to the landlord about being broke. Took her 3 years to pay the money back and 6 months later she left him when he announced he’d done it again and it was now £36k.

I think it would be difficult to spend £116K, simply by 'treating people'. No one surely would be taking out bank loans to do this?! Credit cards, I understand but not bank loans. Unless he's used the loans to pay off various other credit cards

Not as difficult to run up as you'd imagine. The OP says £30k is for house renovations, could be more if that's an underestimate. It could also include some family spending that's outside their budget. Due to the increased CoL, many people have seen a significant reduction in their disposable income, literally most of it gone, so if they've kept spending as they always have, that could account for a good chunk of it. Plus if he's been paying for group meals etc, that could be hundreds of pounds a time, although it's surprising that people let him do this multiple times without reciprocating.

But anyway, spending like that, credit cards fill up quickly, so then people consolidate them with loans, and keep on using the credit card. If you don't pay a credit card off in full every month, the interest racks up at 20-30% pa, which alone could double the balance in 4 years.

I think you need to find out OP, if your husband is actually still working. I can see someone taking out loans/maxing out loans, to pay for bills etc, because they don't want to admit to being made redundant or sacked

This could also be the reason - I can't see if the OP has said whether he's employed or self employed, but could it be that either way, he's lost his income, ie lost a job or his business isn't doing well and/or he's propping up a business with personal credit?

OP, you mention an IVA, and this is probably a situation where one is appropriate. However, it will effectively ban you both from credit for 6 years where you're forced to live on a modest budget with his surplus (and possibly some of yours if it looks like you've benefitted from what he spent the money on) going to repay an affordable amount of the debt, with the rest written off.

However, he will need to get advice first, which should be from a charity like Stepchange, not a commercial provider who might not necessarily be working in his interest. There's a good Moneysaving Expert forum where you can get more information about the practicalities and read about people's experiences.

IVA & DRO — MoneySavingExpert Forum

IVAs are a serious undertaking and a step away from bankruptcy, so if you decide to stay with him and he goes down this route, he needs to understand it's very much a last chance and any more overspending/irresponsible money management, it's over between you.

As others have said, you need legal advice immediately and most likely, to file for divorce.

Help the solicitor to help you by making a list of all relevant facts, with dates.

The fact that you are married makes the house a marital asset but that won't help you if he's secured a load of debt against the equity.

On the other hand, splitting now gives a chance that something can be recovered for you. It's not automatic that the debt would be shared if you had nothing to do with it, and there's a chance of getting a slice of his pension which is the one pot of money he can't touch yet.

You must be in such shock, But you aren’t alone in this. I had to face a very similar situation, and only found out when the mortgage company rang to say they were about to take the house. It was pure chance I was home that day too. If anything the debt was higher than yours, and it was a total shock too. He too was a very generous man, and gave so much to others as well as to us, me and the kids. I still believe he was having a nervous breakdown at the time. Most of it was debt from our family business which was failing and he had hidden it. The rest was because he ‘hadn’t wanted to worry’ me. The advice was to leave him, but that would have been a no win situation, and beside I still loved him and he was a good dad to our kids. I knew I couldn’t leave him, and actually there wouldn’t have been anything left if I had.

So to get out of it my condition was that I took over all finances and he agreed. I went to every debtor straight away. It wasn’t easy to do that but it was absolutely essential.
The mortgage company gave me a 3 month pause on repayments ( that was essential - it was also the time I found out he hadn’t paid a small second mortgage we had and it was too late to reinstate it, so that was another debt).
I controlled all the finances including his credit card, just giving him a small amount in cash each month. That was part of our agreement,
The banks agreed to restructure the loans .
i sold everything saleable I had ( which wasn’t much) and cashed in our insurance policies and that repaid some of the credit cards.
I gave up my lovely fun part time job and got one full time.
We closed the business. He took on two jobs, one main one and a second one.
We cut household costs to the bone. No holidays and minimal Christmas and birthday presents ( something to read, something to play like a board game, something to eat like sweets - secondhand toys and books and games were fine).

it really hurt us of course. The children were old enough to be told and we told them together. They were at private school at the time so offered to leave and did. My daughter - the eldest - made the decision to sell her pony, and gave us the money. She also took on a paper round. She and I started doing craft fairs at the weekend and that brought in a bit more. But we pulled together as a family and to be honest in the long term it strengthened us enormously. That was win win. It certainly wasnt an easy time, and pushed our relationship to the limit, but we did get through it. We were still married and still in love and still a very close family with our children living at home as a family when he died very unexpectedly a few years later. I got his part widow pension and the new insurances paid off what was left of the mortgage. I wouldn’t have got that had I left. Of course everyone’s circumstances are different. You can only do what is best for yours.

The one thing I would stress would be to contact everyone he owes anything to as early as possible. That was key to our recovery. It was negotiating repayment holidays, or interest only repayments for a while that gave us a breathing space to recover. Yes the instinct is to sell the house but then where do you live? That should be the very last thing to go. Only you can decide how you wish to proceed in your own circumstances. I wish you well.

I wouldn't say the sudden interest in his phone points to an affair as that would have happened while he was running up the debts. He's probably checking accounts and notifications.
You say he travels for work. Does he have a decent employer who makes sure he can reimburse all his expenses? If he is self employed is he claiming on his taxes properly?

Good advice @YourWildAmberSloth

Going forward you need to be involved in the household finances - given his history with money, anything else would be foolish.

Only thing is there might not be a going forward, situation could be worse than OP knows and not sure how you find a way back from this. His mess, and yet its OP and the family that will suffer. £116k is an eye watering amount of non-mortgage debt. Not sure how many years of frugality it would even take to pay that off given interest, all the while the family need to go without.

Hoping you get some rest today OP. Sleepless night understandable but you need to look after you too.

Sell the 2 motor bikes for starters

I know our finances, I know the bills and the costs of these, this money is ringfenced every month, our bills are always paid on time, never missed a payment. the problem is the debt that's unaccounted for and hidden from me. I knew he had taken out a loan for the renovation and I knew he had a credit card. But he's been lying about the rest and it's all been hidden from me.

Sorry for your loss @Diorling . What an incredible response to such a difficult situation and hoping it gives OP some direction and hope.

That’s a huge amount of debt, even if the renovations were a bit more than you thought.

As other people have said, prepare yourself that it may be a higher figure than this.

Does he have an iPad or a computer at home that you can get into to view his emails or any other information?

Why has he decided to tell you now? What was the trigger? I don’t like to say this, but is it because debt collectors are about to appear at the door? Has he kept up to date with the mortgage? If he’s behind with that, could the house be at the start of a repossession order?

I’m not sure how you find a way back from this in your relationship. I think you certainly need to see a solicitor.

Gosh, OP! What an absolute shocker. I don’t have any practical advice, it isn’t something I’m familiar with so can’t signpost to help but it looks like you have some great advice here already.

I would not be happy that he’s ignoring your requests to see his bank statements and would totally be concerned that there is more debt than he has said. I’m afraid this would be a dealbreaker for me. My first thought was a gambling addiction. I can’t fathom how anyone could get into that amount of debt. It’s an insane amount. Gambling would definitely make sense.

I hope you can get some answers from him today. I definitely wouldn’t be waiting till he gets home. He needs to let you know what’s going on ASAP and send you copies of his statements.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply, im going through every emotion right now, and can't see clearly at the moment

That's such a dangerous throw away comment

My main concern would be, why is he telling you now? I feel like something big and bad is coming.

It is scary how fast debt builds up if you don't pay credit cards off in full every month, I had a zero percent card for 6 months and the amount owed on that at the end really shocked me I could afford to pay it off but if I couldn't I dread to think how much it would be now. If he has several cards that are running up interest it's easy to get into a lot of debt quite quickly he could be paying 25% interest, so £20,000 could become £25,000 after a year even if you don't add to the original debt. And if he added another £20,000 the next year...

You need to see a debt advisor they can often get further interest frozen and agree monthly payment plans with the companies. Try not to panic.

Don't call a solicitor until you have some facts

Probably thought she'd of forgotten by time he gets home!

He may not want to but if he was my OH and wanted the marriage to continue, then he would have to do just that. I’ve been in debt myself and know the shame around it, but I also wouldn’t want to be in the OPs position either

Jesus what a shock. The cynic in me is saying he's come clean because something hasn't been paid and bailiff action might ensue and you'll find out regardless.

If none of the debts are in your name that's good - he can go into an IVA on his own, and because the house is joint (I assume) the IVA won't take the house but it may means he pays into one for longer. It all depends on affordability and what he's actually spent it on.

More likely too frightened of her reaction to say it face to face. He may have been trying to tell for a long time but just couldn't bear to say it, over the phone may have been the only way he could do it.