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FL thread 2

997 replies

mortil2 · 04/07/2015 07:20

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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AbsentMindedNumpty · 04/07/2015 07:54

Hi Mortil2, linked it Grin

throwingpebbles · 04/07/2015 08:39

Hopping on board Grin

MerdeAlor · 04/07/2015 09:17

From my Flbot:

I've lost friends, been laughed at, told its a scam or a pyramid scheme but I know the reality and don't need to prove anything as I know the products are amazing and the company ethical, stable and profitable! I am an intelligent woman and did my research!!! Millions around the world can't all be wrong!!!! Lol!!

PinkFondantFancy · 04/07/2015 10:03

Lots of FLbots on my facebook. I'd always been suspicious about why a direct seller would be so keen to recruit so many people in the same patch as them, selling the same ropey product with surely a very limited client base... suddenly it's all clear. It drives me potty how whenever anyone asks questions about something like their child's eczema, there's an immediate "I've PMed you hun". It won't help, the cream is full of chemicals!

Eyespying · 04/07/2015 10:19

MerdeAlor - This is the standard reality-inverting script which has been fed to millions of 'MLM' adherents around the world for decades.

In the controlled, two-dimensional, robotic minds of deeply-deluded 'MLM' adherents: they are not deluded and controlled. On the contrary, it's everone who is challenging the authenticity of their group's Utopian fairy story, who is deluded and controlled.

My brother once told me that I needed 'psychiatric help, for believing the urban myth that Amway is a pyramid scheme and a cult.'

Although they appear to be outrageously silly, chronic 'MLM' adherents are technically psychotic, and in certain extreme cases, such persons have ended up dead. Probably the most significant number of 'MLM'-related deaths and injuries have occurred due to a disturbing sub-chapter of the 'MLM' controlling narrative entitled 'Road Warriors.'

'MLM Road Warriors,' were persons (invariably men) trained to believe that only wimps and losers needed sleep. These persons saw themselves as fearless heroes. They drove hundreds of miles each week (often late at night) to attend 'NIght Owl MLM' presentations and meetings.

Particularly in the USA, quite a number of 'Road Warriors' are known to have fallen asleep at the wheels of their cars.

To this day, no one has really attempted to evaluate how many people have died as a result of becoming involved in 'MLM.'

Eyespying · 04/07/2015 10:28

MerdeAlor

I forgot to post this link to my previous comment.

www.google.fr/?gws_rd=ssl

Eyespying · 04/07/2015 10:30

MerdeAlor - For some reason the link has appeared just as Google.

2nd time lucky I hope.

www.amquix.info/amway_occupational_hazard.html

MerdeAlor · 04/07/2015 14:25

Thanks Eyespying I recall from Uni psychology the theory of the ingroup vs the outgroup.
Essentially being in a group with a strong identity gives the ingroup a sense of superiority, security and belonging. An 'us against the world' mentality, everyone else is in the outgroup. MLM taps into the strength of that theory and demonstrates it perfectly.

lazycoo · 04/07/2015 14:44

It's all the 'lol's! I love the shorthand but they really have adopted its passive aggressive qualities perfectly. Thanks for the new thread xx

backwardpossom · 04/07/2015 15:00

Thanks for the new thread, just marking my place :)

Eyespying · 04/07/2015 16:09

MerdeAlor* - Previously, I posted the 8 themes of Robert Jay Lifton, which he listed in a standard medical text book in 1961 and which he described as a 'totalistic thought reform program.'

Another giant in the field of academic research into the cult phenomenon, is Prof. Margaret Singer (1921-2003). Her major work which was published in 1996, is 'Cults in Our Midst.' (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cults_in_Our_Midst).

In this, Prof. Singer set out 'six conditions' in which totalistic thought-reform can be achieved:

1). Keep the person unaware of what is going on and how attempts to psychologically condition him or her are directed in a step-by-step manner.

Potential new members are led, step by step, through a behavioral-change program without being aware of the final agenda or full content of the group. The goal may be to make them deployable agents for the leadership, to get them to buy more courses, or get them to make a deeper commitment, depending on the leader's aim and desires.

2). Control the person's social and/or physical environment; especially control the person's time.
Through various methods, newer members are kept busy and led to think about the group and its content during as much of their waking time as possible.

3). Systematically create a sense of powerlessness in the person.
This is accomplished by getting members away from their normal social support group for a period of time and into an environment where the majority of people are already group members.

The members serve as models of the attitudes and behaviors of the group and speak an in-group language.

Strip members of their main occupation (quit jobs, drop out of school) or source of income or have them turn over their income (or the majority of) to the group.

Once the target is stripped of their usual support network, their confidence in their own perception erodes.

As the target's sense of powerlessness increases, their good judgment and understanding of the world are diminished. (ordinary view of reality is destabilized)

As the group attacks the target's previous worldview, it causes the target distress and inner confusion; yet they are not allowed to speak about this confusion or object to it - leadership suppresses questions and counters resistance.

This process is sped up if the targeted individual or individuals are kept tired - the cult will take deliberate actions to keep the target constantly busy.

4). Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person's former social identity.
Manipulation of experiences can be accomplished through various methods of trance induction, including leaders using such techniques as paced speaking patterns, guided imagery, chanting, long prayer sessions or lectures, and lengthy meditation sessions.

The target's old beliefs and patterns of behavior are defined as irrelevant or evil. Leadership wants these old patterns eliminated, so the member must suppress them.

Members get positive feedback for conforming to the group's beliefs and behaviors and negative feedback for old beliefs and behavior.

5). The group manipulates a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning the group's ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors.
Good behavior, demonstrating an understanding and acceptance of the group's beliefs, and compliance are rewarded while questioning, expressing doubts or criticizing are met with disapproval, redress and possible rejection. Anyone who asks a question is made to feel there is something inherently disordered about them to be questioning.

The only feedback members get is from the group; they become totally dependent upon the rewards given by those who control the environment.

Members must learn varying amounts of new information about the beliefs of the group and the behaviors expected by the group.

The more complicated and filled with contradictions the new system is and the more difficult it is to learn, the more effective the conversion process will be.

Esteem and affection from peers is very important to new recruits. Approval comes from having the new member's behaviors and thought patterns conform to the models (members). Members' relationship with peers is threatened whenever they fail to learn or display new behaviors. Over time, the easy solution to the insecurity generated by the difficulties of learning the new system is to inhibit any display of doubts—new recruits simply acquiesce, affirm and act as if they do understand and accept the new ideology.

6). Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order.
The group has a top-down, pyramid structure. The leaders must have verbal ways of never losing.

Members are not allowed to question, criticize or complain. If they do, the leaders allege the member is defective, not the organization or the beliefs.

The targeted individual is treated as always intellectually incorrect or unjust, while conversely the system, its leaders and its beliefs are always automatically, and by default, considered as absolutely just.

Conversion or remolding of the individual member happens in a closed system. As members learn to modify their behavior in order to be accepted in this closed system, they change—begin to speak the language—which serves to further isolate them from their prior beliefs and behaviors.

AbsentMindedNumpty · 04/07/2015 17:41

Eyespying, that's a disturbing and accurate description of exactly what we've been discussing re FL (and other groups). There are examples of these points in action on various FB pages Sad. I feel sorry for these people; at the end of this process they will feel betrayed and devastated.

lastuseraccount123 · 04/07/2015 19:10

No updates from my bot today. BORING

TheNameIWantedIsTaken · 04/07/2015 20:03

That last post of yours eyespying made me think of the armed forces' basic training.

backwardpossom · 04/07/2015 20:07

All for of mine tonight have said they've an "order going away on Monday #ad "

This is a new hashtag...

backwardpossom · 04/07/2015 20:08

All four of mine, that should say.

trinitybleu · 04/07/2015 20:17

Major FLbot update ... We have a Bob photo!!!!!!

And it looks like they (husband and wife) made Manager 2 weeks ago and then Eagle Manager this weekend ... At least the kids got to go to the Garden Party.

DreamingOfTheBeach · 04/07/2015 20:47

Fun times ahead! I now have two friends who are in FL !
One spent her day in town with a large gazebo promoting her wares.
The other has been in Denmark on some kind of managers training courses.
Swapping tips with other managers from Denmark and Mauritius.

lastuseraccount123 · 04/07/2015 20:48

interesting trinity - eagle manager is a big deal for the bots.

My bot has also just posted an order is going in...interesting. Do they all order at the same time? I wonder why?

throwingpebbles · 04/07/2015 20:54

It is frightening how global FL are. And the numbers involved must be staggering, as everyone seems to know at least one, if not a handful of people who have been sucked in

throwingpebbles · 04/07/2015 20:57

Just seen a Facebook post of a huge forever living poster from an event today which reads "you can't change your life if you don't change your thinking"

Made me thing of eyespyings recent post on cults and how they operate. Chilling

Eyespying · 04/07/2015 21:45

throwingpebbles - You can extrapolate from its own declared membership and annual contract-renewal figures, that the 'FL' cultic racket alone has lately been churning somewhere around 5 millions individuals annually worldwide, but the 'MLM' phenomenon is far more extensive than that.

Earlier, I did try calmly to explain that, given the quantifiable evidence, it is my considered opinion that 'MLM', or 'Prosperity Gospel,' cultism, has become the one of the most profitable, alarming and significant developments of the criminogenic cult phenomenon since the demise of the so-called 'Third Reich.'

There are now literally hundreds of 'MLM' cults. They have been hiding in plain sight and have remained largely unrecognized. They have generated countless billions of dollars of unlawful profits. Their instigators have infiltrated traditional culture to a point where the truth has become almost unthinkable. Huge ammounts of stolen money have been pumped into the coffers of US political parties and into the pockets of corrupt, and/or naive, US politicians and opinion makers. Numerous legally-qualified, former US federal law enforcement agents have been coopted by 'MLM' racketeers.

Even rational people on this thread (who have seen the evidence of what 'MLM' cults can do to vulnerable persons), have initially found it very difficult to accept the validity of my own overall analysis. However, I have had contact with numerous witnesses to this phenomenon, from all over the world. Everyone tells essentially the same story.

Had Mitt Romney got elected US President, then the chances of US federal government agencies launching an investigation of any 'MLM' racket, would have become effectively zero, because Mitt Romney has had his nose deep in the 'MLM' trough. Throughout the George W. Bush Presidency, the FTC stopped all investigations and prosecutions of 'MLM' rackets. Bush appointed one of 'Amway's' attorneys, Timothy Muris, as Chairman of the FTC. The level of corruption that 'MLM' racketeers have attained is completely without precedent. They make Mafia wise-guys look like a bunch of amateurs.

It's taken the backing of a $19 billions Wall St. hedge fund to get a investigation of 'Herbalife' launched, and even Bill Ackman is struggling to destroy the 'Herbalife' bosses' monopoly of information. For obvious reasons, Bill Ackman (so far) has refused to say anything publicly about the wider 'MLM' phenomenon.

Eyespying · 05/07/2015 08:01

TheNameIWantedIstaken

'That last post of yours eyespying made me think of the armed forces' basic training.'

Professor Singer (who, like Professor Lifton, once worked for the US military) felt obliged to point out in her book that the conditions created in cultic groups to produce totalistic thought reform, can be compared to those created in traditional military forces (like the US Marines) to create unquestioning obedience and loyalty. However, professor Singer maintained that in countries like the USA, persons joining the armed forces are generally aware of what they are getting into.

Of course the conditions that Singer described are also present in major organized crime, and terrorist, groups, and in totalitarian states.

I would say that the ultimate analysis of 'totalistic thought reform' is completely unacceptable to many people, because it's a threat to our self esteem. Nonetheless, history proves that it is possible (indeed frighteningly easy) to train human beings to duplicate the unquestioning behaviour of other humans who have already been trained to obey wthout question, using techniques of isolation, reward and punishment that are comparable to those used to train dogs.

In groups like 'FL' and 'Amway,' countless millions of humans have been, and continue to be, deceived into allowing these techniques not only to be inflicted on them, but they have also been deceived into paying to have them inflicted them.

Eyespying · 05/07/2015 08:13

TheNameIWantedIstaken - It's also very significant how many people have been, and continue to be, recruited into 'MLM' cults out of the police service, and armed forces. Such persons often have existing psychological problems + they have already been conditioned systematically not to make decisions without first deferring to the authority of persons occupying places in a hierarchy of command.

LMGTFY · 05/07/2015 08:23

Both my FLbots are nhs (or ex now, I hid them for a long time so I don't know if they quit to 'work around their families'). Both intelligent women, it's scary.