FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

My bot has successfully recruited another sucker "team member"

Technically it's not a pyramid scheme ... a pyramid never actually produces a product, it's all on the promise of something further down the line. There are people buying and getting FL products.

True, the products are there to make it legal, trinity. FL and other MLMs are pyramid schemes when as the REAL promised product - the earning of zillions - never materialises. The people buying and getting FL are by and large the distributors themselves. There'll be the odd retail customer but I expect the consumption ratio between distributor and customer would lean towards the distributor (looking at the FLbots all doing their own clean9s, unsold/ exchanged products, startup kits etc). Not that we would ever get the stats

when

Dense question alert - what is a meme?

#teenagerofthe80s
#iwishsocialmediahadntbeeninvented
#exceptformumsnet

As stated, Amway squeezed out of the "Illegal pyramid scheme" charge in dubious circumstances, by agreeing to require "all IBOs to sell at least 70% (by value) of the products which they had bought wholesale from the company, to at least 10 customers, before they could receive commission payments". Not sure if FL has this requirement. But in practical terms this is never enforced and the only FL/Amway/MLM products "retailed" are bought by the IBOs themselves. Note that so many of the "training courses" emphasis personal use of products...

As well as recruitment, of course, and attending all the (costly) training and success days...

In 2010, FL revenue was 1.7 billion, and the company was selling its products through 9.3 million distributors. Is that ~$200 each or the price of a starter kit?

lastuser yes I'll keep you updated although I doubt if her posts will reflect reality.

One of her recent posts was showed a picture of her amazing house (beautiful 6 bedroomed house in a stunning setting etc) ..... only it's not her house at all. The post was carefully worded to imply that it was her house but actually if you read it carefully it was her goal house

xenu1 - No one is now seriously disputing that (since the 1940s) the overwhelming majority of claimed 'MLM sales' have always been to persons under contract to so-called 'MLM' companies, rather than to members of the general public. What's now being disputed (particularly by the 'Herbalife' mob) is why 'MLM' adherents have been regularly buying products and services (often of a dubious pseudo-medical nature) at fixed-prices which have rendered them demonstrably-unsaleable on the open-market to persons with fully-functioning critical and evaluative faculties.

Thus, because 'Herbalife' is now under the spotlight, after all these decades, 'Herbalife distributors' have all suddenly been re-defined on their take it or leave it contracts as 'Herbalife Members' (to make it appear to ill-informed casual observers that most contractees of 'Herbalife' are merely authentic 'discount customers' and 'end users' whose purchases have been based exclusively on value and demand).

Yet the answer to this tragicomic dispute has been staring the world in the face right from the outset of the big 'MLM' lie, because all 'MLM' cults have been defrauding and enslaving their adherents by offering them commission payments on their own purchases, and on the purchases of their own recruits, and on those of the recruits of their recruits, etc. ad infinitum.

In plain language, a never-ending chain comprising countless millions of transient 'MLM' adherents have been, and continue to be, peddled infinite shares of their own finite money. Whilst a bunch of dunces with law diplomas (i.e the regulators) have to date failed to work out the obvious solution to the 'MLM' enigma that the effectively-unsaleable 'MLM' products, and services, have been an artificially over-valued investment commodity, the hidden function of which has been to launder ulawful losing investment payments into a classic closed-market swindle or pyramid scam (based on the false-expectation of future reward).

If you take my technical analysis even further, when the wider-picture is examined, the ambiguous and unenforceable undertakings which the 'Amway' bosses fed to a naive federal Judge back in the 1970s, were merely an attempt to obstruct justice in order to continue to commit fraud all over the world. As such these smokescreen 'Amway undertakings' (which have been adopted by all the big 'MLM' cults) form part of an overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity (as defined by the US federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, 1970).

lazy true ... if I get the opportunity, I shall ask.

Personally, a quick tally up shows I have sold over 90% to others. And my own consumption is only that high as I love makeup and wear a full face every day

norbert on of my FLbot friends made a comment on her FB page about earning 100k. I immediately commented 'no way!! you have done well in the past six months!!- You are earning 100k already???"

She PM'd me with "no- not yet but I have been shown a plan how I can make 100k a year at least"

When I read her original post back it was carefully worded to convince the reader that her 'new business' was giving her this income.

It's so misleading isn't it (in a deliberately devious, premeditated way).

My FLbot has posted pics of her collecting her new car. A careful read of the comments though reveals that this is for her full time job, and nothing to do with FL

I am off now to FB stalk some FLBots - looking for the carefully worded deception.

Someone linked to a high up FLBot on the last thread - does anyone have a linky?

I had one putting a comment about being lucky enough to have the 'freedom' to spend the day 'car shopping' with a cheeky pic sprawled across some flashy car.
I later discovered that she did buy a car that day- but it wasnt 'flashy' - she traded in her current car for a 7 year old VW Passat

Do you work for a MLM trinity? How long have you been doing it? How much time do you spend a week on it? What level are you at? How much have you made so far? How big is your downline? So many questions sorry, just we've been really keen for someone on the inside to give us a real steer as to how much they earn and what they pay out to do the business (kit, petrol, training, cost of their time)

lazycoo I love your explanation at 8.30am it is brilliant!

trinity and out of those products you sell to others how many are sold to close friends / family ?
And also, do you ever make unsubstantiated claims about the products abilities to cure, say, chronic illnesses (lupus, arthritis etc)?

Or, to put it another way, trinity how many of the sales are "arms length" sales I.e. Sales to people who you don't know through a social connection?

trinity and any other MLMers reading this - hopefully you will be fully accounting and saving up to pay this, but anything you make (if you're lucky enough to get into actual profit) will be taxable income. I worry about the MLM braggers that they've missed this important point as I don't think their handlers upline teach how to do tax returns. Which is a vital part of being CEO of your own company .

Actually the exercise of accounting for tax is a really good one for MLMers as it can show what you've made in sales can actually (by accountancy standards) be written off by the outlays you've made (and then some, I'd wager).

For those with a high online presence, well, they're just asking for a knock at the door from HMRC... Don't cheat your taxes, folks!

thanks for the link lazycoo thats my entertainment sorted!

I recall from the last thread that trinity is a Younique distributor. So i doubt she is claiming to cure MS - only promises of 3D lashes

lazycoo your post of 15:07 with regard to HMRC is one that i have been meaning to make for the last few days. This is my main concern, and source of amusement to all those who claim to be earning ££KK per month. My question is - are they getting round it by saying it is a 'bonus' (not sure how income tax works in terms of bonus'). I would love to know if HMRC are aware and on the case. I wonder what the FLBots response would be if we questioned that one!

Do you work for a MLM trinity? How long have you been doing it? How much time do you spend a week on it? What level are you at? How much have you made so far? How big is your downline? So many questions sorry, just we've been really keen for someone on the inside to give us a real steer as to how much they earn and what they pay out to do the business (kit, petrol, training, cost of their time)

Wow - that is a lot of questions!

Right ...
Yes - Younique, for about 9 months (from launch in the UK - I am presenter number 117 in the UK I think)

Maybe an hour a week? Just setting up Facebook posts and chatting to my team (I have a full on full time job that I have no intention of leaving! I do this for the cheap makeup and because I am happy to use my training and mentoring skills to help others) and I work mainly on the train to my other job - using otherwise wasted time.

The 2nd level up (of 8)

Earnings - about £1,000 so far (all off my own sales - you only earn from your team once they have a good team below them. So once you have grandchildren, you might say. Commission off them is 2 or 3%, whereas your own sales commission is 20 - 30%. No sign up bonuses.)

Team - currently 7. Had 14 at one point but we have a lot of "kitnappers" who join to get the makeup in the kit at effectively half price. I am cool with that - it's actually why I signed up originaly and then people asked me where I got my lashes done and the ball started rolling from there ...

My expenditure - Kit (£69 which is all makeup for me to use), no petrol (products get delivered to customers direct), no training costs (it's all online and free - there are occasional sessions run by some of the original girls when they come to the UK but it's under £50 to attend and that's literally the day delegate rate for the hotel and includes food. These aren't arranged by Younique, just the ladies themselves as a separate venture). I have bought a domain to use for a blog but that was under £10. That's it. I hold no stock.

How much have I sold to close friends and family - none. My family have bought nothing at all. The closest friends to have bought have been a couple of school mums and girls I knew through websites when DD was born. I am cool with that, I would never want to pressurise them into anything and I value their friendships more than the cash! Mainly I sell to total strangers who are guests at online parties held by previous customers of mine (you open up a Facebook group for the party and then chat about the products to anyone interested. People only join if they are interested and can leave at any time) and work mates (I originally did a party at work at which I gave all my commission to our nominated charity).

It's makeup so no, no unsubstantiated claims on disease cures. Our compliance team are also very hot to making sure we're not over claiming anything. You can use personal photos of the effect the moisturiser has on, say stretch marks, but you have to make it clear that those are your personal results.

We talk a lot about being self employed and tax returns - I am already registered as such and used to doing self assessment so that's no issue for me.

Did I miss anything? Shout if so, or if you want to ask anything else.

I joined Younique because I honestly believe they are pretty ethical and I liked the products. They don't pay you to recruit, it pays to nurture and support your teams properly not just sign them up and ignore them, and a proportion of the profits have gone to setting up a support program and centre for abused women. Plus I get my makeup half price :)

throwing you are much too kind

throwing makes an excellent point when asking about who you are selling to. If you are selling to family and friends, our experiences collectively show that this comes at a cost not just in terms of finances, but in terms of trust and confidence. Ask - would you yourself want to be friends with someone constantly shilling?

These schemes often seem attractive precisely at a time when a person is vulnerable or naïve (and we can all be that). At these times, whilst friendship won't necessarily put food on the table, you need your friends - listen to them, would they get involved in a scheme like that? Take their advice before listening to the salesperson. I'd rather give a gift of £100 to a friend who was needing a hand than buy a Clean9 from them and thus perpetuate the myth that there is a market for whatever overpriced goods the particular MLM was peddling. I wouldn't be interested in being a customer long term, so there's no point pretending otherwise. After all, you're probably begging or harassing your friends to buy anyway (when all's said and done) so why not go the whole hog and just get them to pay for your weekly shop? For those who say they don't harass - we've seen the slides, we know you're encouraged to. A 'no' is just a 'not right now' and all that...

I myself nearly signed up for Arbonne in 2012. My proposed upine almost had me fooled that conning my friends making my team from my friends was ok and they would looove it! When I spoke to my friends after I had decided not to get involved, they assured me they would definitely not have been cool with it, they hated the idea of buying makeup from me (we are all in our 30s and have our preferred brands, particularly me - why would I give up estee lauder for Arbonne? the case was never made to me) and certainly not to getting involved in a business sense. Given I had been made redundant and had suffered a mmc all in the month before the Arbots got me, I couldn't have afforded to lose my support network too. Beware the Arbot that claims to be your friend ("you're just like me!" etc - psychology 101) whilst dipping her hand in your wallet...

I should say, I don't think it's ok to shill anyone, friend or not.

I think we may have crossed posts there - I haven't sold to any family or close friends. Just people on my Facebook who have seen photos of me wearing the mascara or bumped into me irl and said "I'd like to get some of that..."

trinity ah of course - sorry! I hadn't made the connection that you were the helpful Younique person.

My next door neighbour is a Younique person and hasn't ever bothered me with it (I have a particular peeve about Arbonne )

I have a separate FB group for "friends" who are interested - I don't post on my personal FB group more than a couple of times a month.

On my personal page, I only post that months special offer plus a couple more if there's something particularly good i.e. one month the offer was a necklace - I didn't post that at all. Last month a fab little travel kit at a great price, so shared a post from the FB group 2 or 3 times max.