FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

Amway business suits... awful. I am too young to remember properly the reasons why but I hated those Amway bottles we had lying everywhere around the house with their stupid 'world' logo (as it was then). I just have this recollection of it being a source of misery. My parents will only say now that they weren't good enough sales people for Amway and I don't want to open old wounds.

TalcumMucker The woman who featured in the linked video is committing fraud and breaking FLP's own smoke-screen rules and regulations.

Buying mountains of products to rise in a pyramid scheme, is what is known in the USA, as 'inventory-loading.'

In all 'MLM' rackets the rules and regulations always appear to forbid inventory-loading, but these rules and regulations are simply not enforced (that is, unless it becomes absolutely necessary to do so, to continue the racket).

Tellingly, 'MLM' racketeers have all offered their victims comission payments on their own purchases. Again, more rules and regulations have been prominently displayed to make it appear to casual observers that 'MLM' participants must retail at least 70% (by value) of what they buy from the organization, before they can qualify for commission payments, but these have simply not been enforced.

If 'FLP' were ever to face prosecution in the UK, any leaders (like the woman in the video) who had been habitually committing fraud and breaking the smoke-screen rules and regulations, would be excommunicated, and the big 'FLP' bosses would pretend that they had absolutely no idea what had been going on.

This transparent dodge has been standard practise in 'MLM' rackets for decades.

In 'MLM' rackets, according to the take-it-or-leave-it contracts, the so-called 'residual income' can be terminated along with any adherent (no matter how high they have climbed), if it is deemed by the bosses that the adherent has broken the rules and regulations.

It looks like the coopers have had a major part of the making of these pro-planners, good god, it gets worse

lazycoo It could have been a damn-sight worse if you were older and your parents had been residents of Michigan, because 'Amway' peddled nuclear bomb shelters to around 50 core-adherents there, in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

You could also get 'Amway Nuclear Fall-Out Survivors Kits.'

TalcumMucker once you receive a 'promotion' you can't be demoted. So even if you don't make any sales you will not be demoted. You just won't get paid.

Tobusy I asked the same question to a Flbot on here a while back, she said she had never been asked to get 4cc, she is a distributor. I think they make the rules up as they go along, cant seem to get a staight answer from any of them.

Toobusytowee and Annie65 - The classic (perverted) esoteric system duplicated in 'MLM' cultic rackets, comprises twin (parallel) pyramids of obedience and initiation.

This system requires 'MLM' adherents to maintain a specific level of financial activity (i.e. payments to the group) for a specific period (usually several months), to achieve hierarchical promotion combined with the purchase of initiation into the 'secret knowledge to achieve total financial freedom forever.'

In reality, if the standard 'MLM business-building plan' is exactly duplicated, promotion requires adherents to keep recruiting more and more adherents who all obediently contribute the same ammount of cash each month.

A form of provisional promotion has also been present in 'MLM' rackets, where adherents have managed to generate the set ammount of income to the group, but not for the required period. This type of promotion can also be achieved by self-consumption (inventory loading).

Up to a certain level, 'MLM' adherents can be demoted if they stop buying the wampum, and/or recruiting, and the required level of financial contributions consequently drops or vanishs.

In 'MLM' rackets, the most insidious bait has been the illusion of never-ending 'residual income,' offered to adherents who manage to achieve the highest levels of hierarchical promotion along with initiation into the secret knowledge.

At certain levels, 'MLM' adherents are assured that they can retire and continue receive the same bonus cheque forever, because this residual income can be passed to their children and to their children's children, etc. ad infinitum.

In reality, for the insignificant minority of high-level winning 'MLM' initiates to exist, there has to be an overwhelming minority of constantly-churning ill-informed losing-adherents.

This is perhaps the ultimate secret of all 'MLM' rackets which (for obvious reasons) only the insignificant minority of winning initiates have had access to.

Toobusytowee So their child would need to keep the 4CCs coming in, in order to be receiving the income that is 'willable' then? So really, it's just passing on the work to them. It's not leaving a legacy which suggests that the money just keeps rolling in without them having to do anything, that is the impression I got from my bot's posts.

And that, I guess, is the whole point. More smoke and mirrors.

Toobusytowee In the classic 'MLM' Utopia, no one who has achieved the highest level will ever have to work again, nor will their children, nor will their children's children, etc., but in the adult world of quantifiable reality, effectively no one has ever reached the highest level, because it's a mathematical impossibility.

When the UK government finally investigated 'Amway UK' in 2007, it was discovered that out of 35 000 claimed 'Distributors', only one British couple occupied the level of 'Diamond' and that around one million persons had been churned through 'Amway' in Britain since 1973. Various other UK ' Diamonds' (3 or 4) had been excommunicated for breaking the smokescreen rules (but only after the investigation was announced). The overall loss/ drop out rate was effectively 100%.

From memory, I believe that 10 000 recruits (each contributing around $200 per month) were needed to be maintained for 6 months to reach the mythical level of 'Amway Diamond Distributor.' This was the first step into the dream world known as 'total financial freedom.' Since the annual drop out rate was in excess of 50%, even if you achieved 'Diamond,' you needed to keep finding more than 5000 new recruits each year, just to stand still.

For each 'Amway Diamond's' 10 000 recruits to reach 'Diamond,' they would have also had to have recruited 10 000 new recruits, who in turn would each have had to have recruited 10 000 further recruits etc. ad infinitum, to reach 'Diamond'.

TalcumMucker, yes, that is how I read it. You can leave your position in the pyramid to your child. If you have reached the mythical position that eyespying talks about, you should theoretically sit back and just keep taking the cash. In reality this won't happen.

My FLbot says that once you get to a certain position you get paid a guaranteed salary and that can be passed on. Seems bollocks to me. And she gave up her job and presumably pension, holiday pay, sick leave, days off etc to try and achieve all this.

It is nonsense and there is no guaranteed salary. It is possible that someone can "take over" your "business" and that of course could be a relative. But I imagin they would have to work the biz - and contribute whatever the monthly CC is required at that level. In practice, you would be bequeathing a monthly loss to your children.

I do know that in Amway many senior pins have relatives close (and of course the FL founder employs his son). But at that level you will be making money off the tools and seminars, and I suppose its easier to have abandoned any moral scruples if you can persuade yourself its your family against the world, and screw the poor downline.

Wrt Ms Woodleys video, she does look uncomfortable. Does she know she is lying? Maybe she's not in too deep yet

My sil says shes doing fl for her babies, what if they dont want to do it? What if they want to go School, get qualifications, get a job, and live in the real world? What will happen then, will the dream go flying out of the window? Guess time will tell they are only 10 months old.

Toobusytoweee According to the take-it-or-leave-it contracts, any 'MLM' adherent can be 'terminated' at any time by their organization, if they are deemed to have broken the 'rules.' This also explains why there have been so few high-level whistleblowers. That said, some of the 'Amway UK' leaders who were terminated in 2007 for breaking the rules, have posted extensive criticisms of 'Amway' on the Net explaining how cruelly they were treated and about how, in breaking the rules, they has been acting for many years with the full approval of the company. Interestingly, the American 'Amway Network' leader, Dexter Yager, to whom the excommunicated UK leaders had been passsing most of the cash (deriving from the advanced fee fraud), was not terminated

Xenu1 'MLM' rules also usually refer to the sale of 'Distributorships.' - In theory, 'MLM' leaders can sell their own section of the recruitment pyramid. This means that, again in theory, transient 'MLM' adherents can suddenly be sold (just like any other slaves) to a new master or mistress. However, according to the rules, no 'MLM' leader is allowed to sell their so-called 'own independent business' without the express permission of the so-called 'sponsoring company.'

Annie65 My brother also briefly gave up his job and spoke of 'Amway residual income' and of passing this on to the next generation, but my brother had no children. For a while, my brother's partner was as deluded by the 'Amway' fairy story, as he was, but eventually she left him. Both of them have never faced the truth about what they did under the influence of the 'Amway' bosses.

FLBot is back from holiday!

In 4 days she made 21 FB posts.
Of those;
1 relates to her wedding anniversary, since the holiday.
5 are FL product ads.
6 are holiday shots of her in various bikinis or in bed.
9 are 'join the team' type posts one of which shows her with her children saying how she has given up her job and is looking forward to being a school gate Mum. "Inbox me for details". In all the years I have known her the only form of punctuation used has been an x occasionally where a . or , should be. This post was punctuated.
She has also returned from holiday having recruited a new Bot. I said she would be good at it.

I did write a message to her, it's in my drafts folder still and I am moving away from sending it.
It would make me feel better for sending it but I don't think it will help her and I think it will make her want to step away from me.
I'm throwing in my towel as an MLM vigilante.
I will watch and wait and know that she will never think I'm saying ' I told you so'.
Well, I hope not.

Someone ought to start and link to a new thread btw, max 1000 posts per thread...Eyespying? You know you want to...

CainInThePunting

As requested, here is the new thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2446930-FL-MLM-Thread-3?watched=1

I'm a newbie, after one of my FB friends started selling FL I decided to google it and find out what it was all about (always thought it was a scam) I've been in tears reading all the comments. Keep them coming ????????????

I recently had a baby and my FL obsessed sister in law bought me about £300 worth of forever living stuff!! That's how they make there targets! They buy it all themselves. Her poor hubby moans he can't have his normal shower gel anymore he has to have the fl one. She even feeds it to her dogs! Comedy gold!

I'm glad this thread still lives! Finding this thread is like discovering a radio channel of salvation from the FLbots - (or as I like to call them, 'walkers' from the Walking Dead) I'm relieved to know there are others with EXACTLY the same thoughts on it all as me.

I've now made it though thread 1 and it has really given me some laugh-out-loud moments - you're all hilarious. I've ended up knowing quite a lot about MLM (specifically FL) though studying it after my close friend got suckered in much to my disbelief. I've since become weirdly fascinated by all the bonkers motivational posts, 'horizon' images, white range rovers and hashtag bingo. Whoever said "Like Rubbernecking at an accident" and "seeking daily doses of cringe" hit it right on the head.

I know it has been mentioned, but it is kind of great that most of these MLM's are the brainchild of Mormons. You want to watch the intro video to the Younique brand. Note the woman with really bad makeup - but the first bit with the man crying is GOLD. AS IF he is shedding a tear about his passion to simply 'empower women' or whatever. LOL These founders are also latter-day saints :-S

www.youniqueproducts.com/business/about

I could rant on about it for ages, but i made some memes to sum it up (couldn't resist after someone mentioned we should do that to counteract theirs!) Feel free to share - I feel I personally can't on the likes of FB because there's that close friend I don't want to upset after she has already been sucked in. I tried to put some sound information together for them about the facts & risks involved, but she has already been brainwashed. Have decided to just leave her to it and hope she will come to her senses by herself. I was too late to even chop off the arm and stop the infection spreading :-(

A FBO just BELIEVES! #Bookofmormon

Ironic their mascot is a bird of prey!!

#smashingit #myownbusiness #promotionsallround #workisfun