Maintenance, how much is enough?

[Longlongsummer]

I was wondering about maintenance payments. My ex has paid £180 a month for years. I get that it’s based on income, however he’s self employed so doesn’t declare half of it!

I used to have a good job however I decided to take a part time one to be around more for our son. I’m the main carer. So I don’t earn very much at all.

I think that this is very low. As effectively I am still covering over half of my child’s costs, in mortgage, clothes, food etc. My son in total does not cost only £360 a month I can tell you! I’ve added it up to budget better.

I’m sure that there are parents out there coping with less, less money and less maintenance. Why are we? Why aren’t we shouting that it’s not right?

I also pay for all the extra activities that my son does, music lessons, child care when younger, extra tuition. He has some mild learning difficulties and I’ve paid for extra help. I’ve paid for every single penny of everything without receiving any extra and I’m feeling a little sick of being both the main breadwinner and main carer.

I’ve talked with other lone parents, and this seems to be the norm. Mothers paid an amount based on CSA which is based not on what the child needs, but what the Dad earns and is the absolute minimum. And yet every father seems to take that as being ‘doing their fair share’.

And I’ve never complained to Ex. And yet I think, what are we doing as women, by just letting this happen? Why aren’t men paying half of the costs for their kids? Is this really common?

It depends. Csa is a “one size fits all” which is crap, but likely the only thing possible without huge admin costs.

To start most average families don’t earn enough to support two households to enable equal parenting. Two mortgages/rent, two lots of bills etc. When the child is absent from whichever home the parents still has to cover those costs.

As to “paying half”- that one is tricky. You mention extra activities, music lessons etc.if one parent doesn’t consider those essential or actively doesn’t want the child to have them then what do you do?

Also something I saw with my dbro- nurse so never was, or going to be a high earner. He didn’t contribute “half” when they were together as he did more of the childcare round shifts and she was the higher earner. Once they split she suddenly expected bigger contributions towards his “half” - so he couldn’t afford housing suitable to see the children- which increased her costs.

Too many variables. Some people can raise children on 20k/year, others think 80k isn’t enough.

You also have the situation where one parent can’t claim tc and cb.

Having said all that i agree, that is assuming dads want to pay. it is difficult to make them pay when they don’t want to. But enforcing is problematic.

I would love to go part time but can't afford it, I think if you don't have enough money you need to work more hours, regardless of the father's situation.

I used to have a good job however I decided to take a part time one to be around more for our son. I’m the main carer. So I don’t earn very much at all

What would you do if the father offered to work part time and become the main carer?

Friend of mine did and got told to fuck off, she wasn’t paying him to take her child off her.

I do think if you choose to go part time you can’t expect him to pay extra to allow you to do so.

You aren’t married. It’s your choice to go PT and manage your budget accordingly.

Does your son never have overnight contact with his dad? What age is your dc?

Shouting to who exactly? (Not being rude genuinely wondering who)

My ex doesn’t pay a penny, zero literally not 1p for 4 children. And hasn’t paid a penny in about 5 years. He manages to get away with it and there is nothing that can be done.

@pumpkin I guess to the government, the media, to advocacy? I don’t know, it’s the kids who lose out and there is so much evidence out there that say that economic hardship is one the main risk factors for children’s wellbeing after separation.

To be quite clear. I am only expecting half!

Why should I work full time to subsidize the fathers half share which is not being provided?

Why is the question turned to me?

Even though my career has taken a huge knock, I have very little pension, I’ve spent countless hours being the main carer, I am just so so surprised that none of us are really up in arms about it.

Oh and the half does not include all the extra curricular. Half is mainly having to have an extra bedroom on the mortgage, as well as food clothing etc. basic needs.

@readitandwept yes he does have overnight contact. Sleeps on his father’s sofa. Why is that important?

I do think if you choose to go part time you can’t expect him to pay extra to allow you to do so. Er no I am not asking for extra. I’m asking for half of childcare costs. And for my child’s welfare part time means I am around for him after school. Why is that bad?

Because CM is reduced depending on overnight stays. Just trying to get a full picture.

@Longlongsummer I think the reason for the question about overnight stay is because child maintenance depends on how many nights/days a week you're looking after LO and how many nights your ex is. I think this is a bit of a strange one actually. Everyone has their own opinions, my DH has to pay over £300 a month for his son and we have one DC together that CMS said they don't take Ito account as apparently I am 'more than capable' of looking after DC myself, being the mother. Meaning I can not afford to work part time, have to work full time to also contribute towards CMS for his ex..... we also have another baby on the way so not sure how we will manage then. She also doesn't let DH see the LO and we don't have money for court as most of it is going to her She has never worked a day in her life, has 3 DC with all different men. I think it is a little bit unfair.

@bluebluezoo a lot of that I agree. However isn’t there a minimum, like a minimum living standard, and so much maintenance falls way below this.

I think that a lot of it starts with societal pressure. My ex holds his head high about maintenance, to everybody. His family, friends, colleagues. And yet the reality is that his son has massively been impacted by financial constraints, i was either earning enough but stressed out, lots of childcare, or being a better more relaxed parent working part time, around to help support him more, but living very hand to mouth.

I have my son 95% of the time too. Ex has him every month for a night or two. That’s it.

It’s as if we have to suffer this silently. I’m sure there are people with no maintenance too, which is terrible. And yet still want to be a parent. You can’t have it both ways!

I’ve just accepted it tbh. I have no fight left in me, I’m at a dead end as no one isn’t interested as ex gets cash in hand so on the surface he is not working or claiming benefits.

Tax credits make up the minimum you ' supposedly need to raise a child, maintenance is a bonus'
Sad but true reality for a lot of people

Fair enough about overnight stays. He only has a few a year but has him for a week or so in summer and a week in winter. And often my maintenance for that month doesn’t arrive!

I guess it’s just that kids do cost, and that has got to come from somewhere, so why is it often the main carer?

I know this isn’t always the case. But usually I do think it is. My DHs Ex got a lot of maintenance, way over anyone’s view of half, and also a house. Also never worked and was pretty entitled. Always asking for more! So I know that there are exceptions.

@teddy349 how can your husband afford two more kids but can't afford to go to court and fight for access to his first child?

@readitandwept from the figures we were given it would cost us thousands before we even get to court. Our children don't cost anywhere near that much

@readitandwept I do think it's unfair that CMS do not take his other children into account. They should

@PumpkinP that is so rubbish for you. Sorry you are experiencing that. It’s like having a kid and running away, it’s real neglect. If you neglected financially like that, sorry no money for food, to your child you’d be imprisoned!

@stoneagemum I guess you are probably right. However it’s not the governments responsibility really is it, it’s the parents!

I think I’m just surprised more men, (usually men) who pay low or no maintenance aren’t even a little ashamed. My Ex says loudly a lot that he pays, and has even complained that he ‘was just a wallet’ (I wish!). It’s not even recognized.

When ex's don't or won't pay and decide to go on benefits - maintenance is £6 a week via CMS. After losing some in fees for them to actually forcibly collect it.
It's not topped up by the government or anyone else. 2 children. £6 a week.

When that ex goes to prison, it's £0. The government don't even pay it on their behalf for the children. They get fed and watered a plenty in prison and the children starve.

This is a fucked up country as far as maintenance and it's enforcement go.

The CMS system is flawed at both ends. But I don't really see what other way they could do it without creating a huge mess.

My husband is at the opposite end. He has 50/50 shared care and it still says he has to pay maintenance to his ex. Makes no sense.

It's a very tricky situation and you'll never find a formula that fits all. I've seen it from every side of the fence. My eldests dad paid 200 a month every month for 18 years but had no interest in seeing him. My youngest two with ex DH we do 50 50ish(I do a little more) so I've not had maintenance in 8 years, and rightly so!

My now DH is disabled after a work accident and is unable to work. We have his children every single weekend and they live a few hours away, and they're here for huge chunks of the holidays, and I cover the lot with my just above minimum wage job. I spoil them all like they're my own and if they need something, I buy it, no questions asked. I'm sure the ex wife is furious that she gets no maintenance but she gets her rent, council tax, school meals, tax credits and child benefit for her hoardes of kids. We don't get any housing benefit etc at all and really really struggle. We certainly can't afford to gamble it all away like she can. We had to use a food bank for a YEAR up until very recently.

@heyjoeyitsestelle I think when there is a 50/50 Care arrangement no maintenance should be paid from either side considering everything is already split, bills, food, activities, etc. equally between both parents. Doesn't make sense at all

from the figures we were given it would cost us thousands before we even get to court. Our children don't cost anywhere near that much

He can go to court for £215 and self represent.