Maintenance, how much is enough?

[Longlongsummer]

I was wondering about maintenance payments. My ex has paid £180 a month for years. I get that it’s based on income, however he’s self employed so doesn’t declare half of it!

I used to have a good job however I decided to take a part time one to be around more for our son. I’m the main carer. So I don’t earn very much at all.

I think that this is very low. As effectively I am still covering over half of my child’s costs, in mortgage, clothes, food etc. My son in total does not cost only £360 a month I can tell you! I’ve added it up to budget better.

I’m sure that there are parents out there coping with less, less money and less maintenance. Why are we? Why aren’t we shouting that it’s not right?

I also pay for all the extra activities that my son does, music lessons, child care when younger, extra tuition. He has some mild learning difficulties and I’ve paid for extra help. I’ve paid for every single penny of everything without receiving any extra and I’m feeling a little sick of being both the main breadwinner and main carer.

I’ve talked with other lone parents, and this seems to be the norm. Mothers paid an amount based on CSA which is based not on what the child needs, but what the Dad earns and is the absolute minimum. And yet every father seems to take that as being ‘doing their fair share’.

And I’ve never complained to Ex. And yet I think, what are we doing as women, by just letting this happen? Why aren’t men paying half of the costs for their kids? Is this really common?

like @holidayhelpppp was referencing, apparently as main carer I was so privileged anyway

please can you quote where ive said that?

I really don't appreciate you fabricating posts that I haven't posted.

There you go @holiday
The thing is most women WANT to be RP and therefore have to take the costs associated with that. Nobody is forced to be RP if they don't want to be.

In other words, privileged to be RP so just have to suck up the costs.

no, not in other words.

You cant say oh yes your post said this but actually means that!

I never said YOU were privileged, I said most women want to be RP, which lets face it, they do.

When did I mention privilege?!

Youre just making things up now.

But he does give you a contribution, it's up to you how you use that money. That amount may not be 'enough' but if you think you're entitled to more, go through CMS.

Duchess if we put childcare in a separate pot (i think that should be 50/50 and a different calculation) £400 should cover everything for one child (state school and NHS).

It would be essentials but spread over the year should cover it.

Then there are the things that makes life pleasant - extra curricular, birthday parties, holidays.

How much do you think an ordinary child costs, on average pcm (excluding childcare).

@ThighThighOfthigh I agree, the childcare costs should be split equally between both working parents.

Where I don't agree with you is that things like friends' birthday parties are luxuries. This is part of the basics of having children and I would not be a good parent if I refused invitations because my ex refuses to pay an equal share. Of course I suck it up like most other RPs. Same with dance lessons and extra tutoring- yes of course they are nice to have but what decent parent would refuse to pay it if they could make it work?

It is completely irrelevant what I think the costs of bringing up a child are. I live in a nice area, my DP has 2 DC as well so we have a big house so all 4 DC have their own bedroom and we are close to their schools. My ex has no room for our children to stay and he lives 2 hours away from their schools. That doesn't matter because he has never set foot in the eldest's school and has never done a school run. Of course I could live cheaper- I could move to a cheaper area, could make the DC share rooms with their step siblings, feed them tinned soup and bread and my outgoings would be cheaper.

The actual costs are irrelevant because the NRP does not pay on that basis- they pay a measly percentage of their income and then fly off to New York and Mexico with their gf for 5* holidays (in my case) then tell me they can't afford to contribute towards a £415 school residential trip so I have to pay it all. And yes, of course I could say no and let DD be the only child in the class not able to go but really, who would/could do that?

The actual costs are irrelevant because the NRP does not pay on that basis- they pay a measly percentage of their income and then fly off to New York and Mexico with their gf for 5 holidays (in my case) then tell me they can't afford to contribute towards a £415 school residential trip so I have to pay it all. And yes, of course I could say no and let DD be the only child in the class not able to go but really, who would/could do that?*

bitter much?

how do you know who pays for their holidays?

His maintenance presumably goes towards things like trips.

@ThighThighOfthigh but since you asked specifically how much I think a child costs- my mortgage is £1500 a month, would probably be £600 for a small flat or £1000 for a little cottage for just me. My food bill is around £250 a month (I pay 50% plus an extra £100). Water not so much as they don't shower as much as I would like... electricity, petrol and gas is all a lot more. Packed lunches/school meals extra £20 a week.

The issue is that the law and ineffective CMS make it easy for the NRP to sit back and think well, that's not my problem, she chose to be the RP therefore she pays the bills and I will pay the minimum and not a penny more.

@holidayhelpppp well yes, I am bitter actually. I have already explained why his measly contribution does not cover the cost of school trips. The CMS calculation doesn't even pretend to be a fair division of expenses so I am not sure why you are so determined to prove that it is.

@holidayhelpppp and how do I know who pays for their holidays? Are you for real? Unless he has a secret benefactor then I'm pretty sure he and his gf pay for their holidays themselves.

Actually, you're not my ex's girlfriend by any chance are you? Some of this sounds familiar.

duchess no not unless your child lived with me for 2 years?

ps ive never been to mexico.

well maybe his gf pays for them? which would be none of your business considering your children aren't her responsibility?

I haven't once said "cms is fair"

its like once you become an ex wife you lose the ability to read!

and im nobodys "girlfriend" thanks.

You also get child benefits, tax credits or universal credits etc I think £180 is a lot but my ex is meant to pay £60 a month so it’s all relative really.

@holidayhelpppp seriously, you think I'm the one not reading things properly.

You have implied, time and time again, that CMS is fair because "maintenance covers that". I am telling you that it doesn't- not in my case and not for the majority of RPs.

Maybe the gf does pay for everything. I doubt it but good for him if she does. The fact remains that he has the freedom and financial independence to have a great standard of living precisely because he doesn't pay what he should towards his children. But he is protected in that because the law is biased against RPs.

You and ex both pay rent on houses. You both pay bills on houses. He pays £180 a month for food and other costs for ds.
Why should he pay 2 mortgages, 2 sets of bills, cover your choice to work part time, cover your decision to enrol ds in activities?
You sound money grabbing and bitter.

I haven't once said "maintenance is fair" I have in fact said that the system is flawed.

What the CMS will tell you is that the payment is to cover the childs living costs, and as such trips and things like that would be included within that.

You are of course well within your rights to ask for more, but he is well within his rights to say no.

The law is not biased against RP's at all. What law are you even talking about?

What does he pay out of interest? What CMS recommend or less? or nothing?

The fact is that you might think its unfair, and in a lot of cases it is, but until the CMS changes and is massively overhauled or an entirely new system is put in place, this will not change.

Some RPs will be massively disadvantaged, and some NRPs will be massively disadvantaged.

@Longlongsummer Sorry for the delay, been in a class.

It isn't a simple yes or no. That's your problem. You're looking at it in a too black and white way.

If the father is already paying for their own home, then they shouldn't be paying towards the mother's is the black and white answer. But the more complicated answer is, it depends on income, if the house is a joint house the father has moved out of but owns a share of etc.

for instance, when dss lived with us we got £25 a week in maintenance from his mum.

Now he lives with her, she gets £72 a week from us. Almost 3 times as much.

Does it cost her 3 times as much per week to bring him up?

No, it does not.

One of the many flaws of the system.

and before you say it, dp doesn't earn 3 times as much as she does either!

@holidayhelpppp what law am I even talking about? The Children's Act, in particular the section on parental responsibility.

My ex pays less than the CMS amount. His gf told me I chose to be the RP so I should pay for everything and do all parenting duties. Which of course I will and I do, like so many other RPS.

If I was PM I would overhaul the laws and make NRPs who work responsible for sharing childcare. I would enforce the NRP going to a minimum of one school parents' evening a year and I would enable a proper calculation of maintenance based on individual circumstances. Finally, I would enforce the sanctions which the CMS can use but don't do that NRPs who choose not to pay face consequences. Oh, and I would teach all of this to teenagers in school so they know their rights if a relationship breaks down and they are left holding the baby.

I would enable a proper calculation of maintenance based on individual circumstances

brilliant, but how are you going to do that?

wouldn't we all be happier if that was the way it was worked out! I certainly would, but there are so many variables to be taken into account, it would be so complex that it would be incredibly hard to roll out to the whole population.

I agree, teenagers should be taught about things like this, there would be a lot less accidental pregnancies I feel.

how is the childrens act biased against RP's?

@holidayhelpppp bizarrely it would be the same in reverse here. If I was the NRP and exH stepped up to be RP, he would get far more in maintenance from me than he gives me. Bonkers isn't it, the children would cost the same to bring up.

I think the OP has raised really good points and whatever the specifics of her particular situation, I think it is generally true that overall women shoulder much more of the cost of raising children when separated. This is both the direct cost because many do not get maintenance that reflects the actual cost of child raising and indirect costs because they sometimes/often carry out more of the looking after with the career opportunity cost that brings.

I get £80 a month for 2 DC. So relatively £180 for 1 is a lot. There are many variables. We're managing fine, I don't need more money from ex so I just leave it, it took months to get this far.

it is duchess

I wholeheartedly agree with you that something needs to change, but unfortunately I cannot see it happening any time soon, or certainly whilst our children are still children.