Maintenance, how much is enough?

[Longlongsummer]

I was wondering about maintenance payments. My ex has paid £180 a month for years. I get that it’s based on income, however he’s self employed so doesn’t declare half of it!

I used to have a good job however I decided to take a part time one to be around more for our son. I’m the main carer. So I don’t earn very much at all.

I think that this is very low. As effectively I am still covering over half of my child’s costs, in mortgage, clothes, food etc. My son in total does not cost only £360 a month I can tell you! I’ve added it up to budget better.

I’m sure that there are parents out there coping with less, less money and less maintenance. Why are we? Why aren’t we shouting that it’s not right?

I also pay for all the extra activities that my son does, music lessons, child care when younger, extra tuition. He has some mild learning difficulties and I’ve paid for extra help. I’ve paid for every single penny of everything without receiving any extra and I’m feeling a little sick of being both the main breadwinner and main carer.

I’ve talked with other lone parents, and this seems to be the norm. Mothers paid an amount based on CSA which is based not on what the child needs, but what the Dad earns and is the absolute minimum. And yet every father seems to take that as being ‘doing their fair share’.

And I’ve never complained to Ex. And yet I think, what are we doing as women, by just letting this happen? Why aren’t men paying half of the costs for their kids? Is this really common?

If my ex was the main carer damn right I’d be expecting him to provide a bedroom, and think of schooling - all of his basic needs. As the other parent I would pay half the costs for this no problem. Why wouldn’t I?

you're certain about that now, but if it came to it I bet you'd be feeling very different.

Most people don't want to pay "half" based on someone elses decisions that they've had no involvement in.

If dps ex bought an expensive house, next to a great school, and enrolled dss in 3 expensive activities a week and then demanded half from dp she would be told no.

You don't get to make expensive decisions and then snap your fingers and expect someone else to cough up for it.

They should pay reasonable costs like food/clothes etc. Bedrooms and clubs decided by the other parent? Nah.

but long you did?

you also chose to have a child, and remain RP to that child so unfortunately you need to suck it up. And i'd say that to you if you were a man, too.

Don't make this into a "poor little womenz" issue.

his sons housing costs aren't his problem, where he houses his son is his problem. Where you house him is entirely yous im afraid.

OP I get you. My ex can work, live, socialise etc wherever he likes. I am tied to providing the main family home and taking all the expenses that brings with it. My ex deliver pays less than the CMS minimum by about £80 a month. After months of asking him to pay the proper amount I called the CMS and the lady was dismissive of the £80, saying well he's not underpaying by very much is he. The fact is that £80 a month is significant when you have ALL the costs of housing, feeding and clothing children.

It's a man's world. If more resident parents were fathers the laws would be tightened. But because it's women who pick up the slack then it doesn't matter. I am consoling myself with the fact I won't be paying childcare forever as my ex would no sooner pay towards childcare despite working FT himself then he would offer me money towards a designer bag. He sees both as equally far outside his duties as a parent.

My sister-in-laws brother pays half the mortgage on the house his ex and kids live in, on the understanding that when the youngest is 18 the house will be sold and profits split between the ex couple. This was part of the settlement. It was agreed that it wasn’t fair that one person should pay half towards a house that they wouldn't own.

Personally i think if you are normal people with normal jobs and kids in state school i think £50pw for each child covers 50% of the childs essential expenses.

They probably eat £35 pw including packed lunches and use £5 in energy. The rest £10 pw will take care of 50% of essential clothing. My maths is bad, i know.

The extras are a choice, you may view them as essential to your childs happiness, they probably are, but still a choice.

It’s just a fact isn’t it. Kids do have housing costs, extra ones.

I think hokidayhelp is saying that those basic housing costs for the child should only be paid by the mother after separation. And that non resident fathers can keep their earnings and just pay half of food for the children they’ve bought into the world.

Or did I get that wrong?

I don’t have the most expensive house. If I’d paid for a big house for my own benefit that I didn’t need for me or my son, then I wouldn’t be expecting the ex to pay extra for that. I have a moderate house near a reasonable school.

I’ve struggled massively whilst ex goes on several foreign holidays a year. I could have made my child sleep on the sofa and lived elsewhere near a rubbish school, where prices were considerably cheaper, and gone on several foreign holidays a year too. Maybe I should of @TokenGinger and @holidayhelpppp

You haven't answered the question of whether you receive tax credits? If you work part time I imagine you do unless you're on a high salary, in which case you wouldn't be struggling.

It's a man's world. If more resident parents were fathers the laws would be tightened. But because it's women who pick up the slack then it doesn't matter.

@DuchessMinnie too true. Thank you for being a bright clear voice.

I think the sad thing is, that even on this thread for lone parents on mumsnet, it’s other women who are prepared to hold up the man’s right not to pay for his child. It’s very shocking and very sad really. It’s the kids who lose out, truly.

@Todaythiscouldbe so tell me, is it okay for a father not to pay for a roof over his kids head?

no, what I am saying is each parent should pay for their own house, in which their child stays. What kind of property that is, where it is etc etc is entirely up to them.

Youre forgetting that NRPs who have overnights have to get houses with extra bedrooms etc too. Would you like to contribute to that?

I thought not.

presumably you're not being forced to be the RP?

men can be the RP, and tbh I think more of them should be, I really do.

We need to forget the idea that women are childcare and men pay for it, we should have left that attitude in the 1950s.

Op Yanbu that the system is flawed.

In an ideal world if your mortgage for a 2 bed was 600 but for a 1 bed would be 400 then Dad would pay 100 towards living costs assuming he didn't have a spare room as his house for son but nothing or at least less if he did as he's also providing son with accommodation (£100)

Electricity etc doesn't massively go up, so say 1/6 for the days he's at yours offset by how many he's at Dad's so if 1 day at days he'd pay 1/6 of 5 days worth of power. (£15)

Food would be a half share of what he costs for the days he's at yours offset by the meals he provides per week so 1/2 of the costs for 5 days (£35)

Extra curricula activities would be signed off by both parents and split in half, or the parent who wants it would pay for it all (£40)

Uniform would be split in half (£10)

Childcare would be half assuming both parents worked full time (£200)

Holidays, trips are harder - you can't expect ex to pay 1/4 of a holiday you've chosen if he then wants to take him would you pay 1/4 of his costs? Perhaps 1/3 of national av yearly costs? (£15)

Haircuts, daily clothes etc would be split in half based on a national average for costs (£20)

Imagine the proof and calculations you would need for that. I'd say £235 without childcare for your son if he goes to Dads ine day a week? But then you have to factor in the other parents earnings as you can get blood out of a stone. If you were together and couldn't afford all that you'd reduce it accordingly, so no holidays, cheaper food etc. So if Dad were in a low income and couldn't afford to pay that and keep a roof over his head do the state insist he ends up on the street or in a hostel where its even less likely he can help care for his son? Of do you buy yourself nice food and shop in the basics range for DS from his share of money?

The system is flawed because its so complicated. And that's for 1 family.

How would you solve it?

it’s other women who are prepared to hold up the man’s right not to pay for his child

except nobody has said that, we're saying he shouldn't be paying for your house - we've all agreed he should be paying for your childs costs.

@holiday but my son lives 95% with me. I’m quite prepared to go halves on 5% of the time he spends with his Dad.

And that is why he sleeps on his Dads sofa. Because I take the full financial hit of housing costs, he doesn’t have to.

If he were the main parent and the child never had a bedroom ever, it’s likely that would be a case for social services.

I give up.
Your ex should pay half of everything, I suggest keeping itemised receipts and handing them over, together with copies of all bills so he can pay his half of your DS's half.

Re missed maintenance payments, is it not through CSA?

Why does Dad have him once a month?

long it doesn't have to be that way though does it?

you clearly think he is a shit parent, and so he should make up for that by paying your more.

Unfortunately for you, that's not how it works.

@SleepingStandingUp I guess the first step is just to recognize it amongst ourselves in society. I don’t think that we do. Several posters keep saying ‘why should Ex pay for my house’ etc - there’s not even an acknowledgment that I am paying extra to put a roof over our child’s head, but the father isn’t. Our child lives with me full time, so this is where the costs are. Just a fact.

Same with thousands of other women.

Some have good payouts from divorces, so some are okay. I think that the vast majority of us are paying over half of our child’s basic needs.

I think for me it would greatly help if my ex just recognized that I’m paying over my share. Just acknowledged it.

OP, I think my responses here are coloured by my own situation, in that both DP and I have a mortgage each. If we split, one of us would move to the other house and we'd each have a mortgage and bills to pay, which is why is not expect any costs towards my house because he'd be providing the same for our son. It doesn't sound like your ex has this same cost but hand on heart, I'm still not sure I'd expect money towards my mortgage costs because that's my investment and as somebody else upthread said, I know agreements where DFs pay towards the mortgage on the agreement they get a cut of it in the sale at age 18. I wouldn't want that condition imposed on me.

We all have different situations and different outgoings and if you are genuinely struggling whilst your son's father lives a life of luxury, there are two ways to fix it. Return to full time work so you're able to increase your earning potential and tell exDP he'll now need to pay half costs for wrap around childcare, or speak to DP and tell him the money he provides isn't enough to support his son.

@Todaythiscouldbe oh I’ve tried that in the past. He’s got angry and hurled abuse. I gave up.

so was the point of this thread that you just wanted sympathy for paying more than half for your own child?

@TokenGinger however if you then had the kids 95% of the time, and say you had four kids, and so needed to get a bigger house and bigger mortgage, which made you really struggle, whilst your Ex sized down, perhaps got another house that he rented out so he was able to keep now two houses going, for his own investment, and so did not provide a bedroom for your kids, but only based maintenance on food, would you not start to feel that this was unfair?

in that situation long you could ask for 50/50 shared care?

then nobody is "better off"

you're beginning to sound really bitter that you have to parent and he doesn't.

Why doesn't he have your child more often?

Longlongsummer just to clarify, I absolutely don't think you should do that. That's completely insane