He wants them for Christmas

[foreverdieting]

Hi, my ex had an affair and left me and the kids (then 2 and 4) three years ago. Moved in with the other woman and they live just over an hour away. He has the children over night every other weekend and might have them for a week once a year. He's a good dad and even though they don't want to go initially they enjoy themselves once they are there. I've had them every Christmas since the break up as I feel that it was his decision to leave us and the kids should wake up in their home on Christmas morning.

Anyway he's saying he wants them Christmas eve and Christmas day. I've said that he could come and get them after lunch on Christmas day so we both get to see them. This isn't good enough for him. The thought of not seeing my children Christmas morning breaks my heart, I'm sitting here sobbing trying to ignore his text messages. I don't have any family nearby but do have a boyfriend now who will be here xmas day so I know I won't be on my own. What do I do???

well said starlight

posters are saying and op says that the father doesnt deserve / children dont need to spend xmas at their dads because dad doesnt step up see them enough on non special occations.

The underlying principles behind that are quite scary - because it suggests that if a child has limited contact with a parent on a day to day basis, their need for quality time with that parent reduces.

The OPs DCs are still too young to understand that "daddy can't be bothered" - their perception of seeing Daddy is no different to a child whose parent works away from home - or is absent through illness or caring responsibilities.

Is it really the case that those children don't "need" to spend time at Xmas with the parent they see less of? That they won't benefit from waking up in the same home as that parent on Christmas morning? That's really sad.

Wakey, I don't think people are saying that. They're saying the child DOES need quality time with their dad and it would be very beneficial on a regular basis year round.

Yet some NRP don't want that, only when it suits them for their own reasons - presumably because they don't want to be without their kid on xmas day.

Their Dad used to have them from Friday night until Sunday everyt other week but then changed it recently so he gets them Saturday morning instead. He's changed job so said he wouldn't be able to get them until about 8 Friday night. Fair enough however they would be fine going at that time.

He also used to see them mid week but this has changed due to his job. I have never stopped him seeing his kids and never would. I thought he would be happy with the arrangement of picking them up later on Christmas day but it seems not. My main interest is that of the children. Yes I will be incredibly sad if I don't see my young children wake up on Christmas morning.

What does everyone else do when their children are with their Dad's on Chrismtas day?? If you haven't got family nearby do you celebrate Christmas on the 25th still or do the whole shibang when you have the kids?

"That they won't benefit from waking up in the same home as that parent on Christmas morning?"

Well, the OP has said quite clearly that she'd quite like them to benefit from waking up in the same home as their father on a more regular basis across the year. But he's not coming across as being particularly fussed about doing that. Yet now he's keen on playing 'happy families' for some sort of Christmas film fantasy vision with his OW, and needs the kids to fit in with that?

Forever if it is my Ex's year to have DD on the 25th December I do not celebrate Christmas that day. Instead i do jobs or often work. Then on another day when DD is with me we have our Christmas Day DD lives it as she gets two full on Christmases, she doesn't feel guilty that she left Mummy alone on Christmas and I don't feel sad as that day is not Christmas.

clam I don't disagree that he's a crap dad - I just think it's disingenuous to claim it's not beneficial to the DCs for them to spend a Xmas morning with him.
Fair enough if the OP and other poster think he doesn't deserve it - but that is at the DCs expense.

Not necessarily at their expense. Sounds to me as if they're more than happy with the status quo - sharing the day as they've done previously.

And of course, none of this was at the OP's choosing - he was the one who left. And I don't hold any truck with the "I left you, not the kids" line, either. His dick OW was more important than them.

So are you saying the RP should allow cherry picking on 1 day but just be perfectly accepting of the NRP not bothering on the other days?

Is the RP not failing in at least attempting to resolve all the other days with the aspects of them that they can have any impact with?

Granted there is not much anybody can do with a parent who does not prioritise their children but pandering to them will rarely work and tends to lead to everybody else apart from the one with the lack of actual responsibility being or feeling less important inc the children

Agree.

"Hey kids, marvellous news! Your dad wants you to go to his for Christmas. He feels it's very important that you consider his home yours on this one day of the year."

Kids: how come we never go there the rest of the time then?

Mum: Er.....

Not necessarily at their expense. Sounds to me as if they're more than happy with the status quo

It's short term vs long term benefits, isn't it? They may be happy with their lives now, but look back when they are adults and think "I can never remember opening presents with Dad on Xmas morning".
The OP might face some difficult questions when the DCs have DCs of their own (which is often when adults begin to reflect on their own childhood).

And of course, if anything happened to the DCs dad which prevented them from spending another Xmas with him (death, injury, illness) then "waiting until they are older" becomes a moot point.

Sure, the DCs are happy enough - but they'll never have memories of pancakes and Buck's Fizz (or whatever his particular tradition is) with Dad on Xmas morning. And the reason for that is because their mum doesn't think their Dad deserves that experience.

"And the reason for that is because their mum doesn't think their Dad deserves that experience."

No, the reason for that is that THEIR FATHER CHOSE TO LEAVE THEM! Their mother was left to pick up the pieces.

I've been a stepmum for 13 years and we've always had the boys on Boxing Day (apart from one year when their mum went on holiday for Christmas and we had them - unfortunately I managed to cook the world's dullest Christmas dinner that year so the day wasn't an overriding success). They have lots of relatives on their mum's side living locally so Christmas Day with her was always a big day for them. Then on Boxing Day we'd have them and DH's parents, and have another Christmas dinner and presents. We still do it now they're grown up (mine and DH's two small boys love it too as they now get two Christmases.)

What you're doing now sounds fair and practical. I don't know if the OW has children of her own (sorry, have read some of thread and skimmed the rest) but if not she may not want the children for all of Christmas Day or enjoy it when they're there.

Well they'll be without of lot of NONE Christmas related memories too won't they? That Dad has unilaterally decided they won't need in the future. They won't have any memories of Dad being there for the tough stuff or the boring day to day stuff that builds bonds. I dare say they'll roll with the punches the way they've had to with Dads choices too and I am not just talking about leaving for OW here but about the fact that he barely sees them and does not play a proper parental role, unless I have missed the bit where he is stamping his feet and demanding more access to his kids on a day to day basis rather than just for a soft focus merry Christmas.

I'm a bit confused now, never getting to open presents in the morning with dad?

Why is it an issue, lots of families don't do presents in the morning,it sounds like they have been able to open presents with dad every Christmas afternoon

It really did not take long before the "you need to move on" brigade got going and the "Dad's rights" brigade.

No one ever gets over finding out their other half has had / is having an affair - be that man or woman.

No one ever gets over finding out that the OW/OM is going to have an influence on your DCs. It is not gender related.

I have moved on but, there is a little part of me that struggles to trust and always will.

As to facing difficult questions from DCs later in life, get real Wakey! Since when does a useless parent of either sex, who can barely manage to do contact on normal days - get the right to dictate on the best days. I do every other, strictly and no deviation so far. Does it suck, yes it sodding well does, last year Ex managed 16 days of contact - but expected b days and Xmas, then wanted New Year aswell. So out side of special days he managed 8 days of non special day contact - get a life. The OP is being reasonable, her twunt is not

I do the best for my DCs, 365 days of the year, I suck it up and hurt in private - so dickhead and his OW can play happy families on certain days of the year. The DCS know already at 6 and 4, they are only welcome when it suits, when there is enough space in the car for all the DCS to fit - ie, never, when .................This year they want to spend Xmas with me, whilst EX creates merry hell because he has a new DC with OW and would it be nice for them all to spend Xmas together - not it would not. I am not being unreasonable, no I am not changing for this year, because next year will be another excuse and another and another - like there always bloody is.

D'know I've never in my life heard a child who's parent was not around much the rest of the year ever get upset about not waking up on Christmas morning with said parent. Just me?

If he currently gets them in the afternoon Xmas day then can't he have then Xmas eve and morning and you get them Xmas afternoon? So a straight swap?

How would you feel is he had them an extra sunday a month - if its work related hours which has resulted in the reduction of time the children get with their dad? He may not be interested in this at all through.

IS the one week in the holidays all he wants - could he have them more through the holidays?

I realise he may not be interested through

I got over my ex having an affair. I got over the OW having input in my childrens upbringing. In fact this afternoon we sat chatting and laughing.

Having an affair does not mean the child should be deprived of as full a relationship as possible and that's the thing. It's not about "get over it", it's not about "dads rights" (dad doesn't have any rights, neither does mum). It's about encouraging as much a relationship as possible for the sake of the children.

I can't imagine anyone thinking 48 hours is enough effort to make for a child but that doesn't mean you deprive a child of the chance to spend Christmas with the other parent.

Just because you don't hear about or see the damage doesnt mean it doesn't happen. I work as a psychotherapist. It happens.

"that doesn't mean you deprive a child of the chance to spend Christmas with the other parent."

Have you read the thread at all?

The OP has said clearly that they currently share the time, Christmas Eve/and next morning vs Christmas pm and Boxing Day. It's the ex who's now demanding he have them the whole period. She's not depriving him OR the kids of time with their father. He, on the other hand, is expecting them not to spending any of it with their mother.

And before we hear any more implied criticisms of the OP potentially driving her kids straight to a psychiatrist's couch due to a fucked-up childhood, remember that SHE is the parent who STAYED and tried to make it all OK for them.

Not read the entire thread and I am not personally sentimental about Christmas at all, but I think it is nice for children to have a certain routine on a day like Christmas. If they have, for the last three years woken up at home and then gone to their father after lunch I don't really see the benefit of changing it, and they get to see both parents on Christmas day.

Well they'll be without of lot of NONE Christmas related memories too won't they? That Dad has unilaterally decided they won't need in the future.

Yup. You're right. They will. But, in my opinion, two wrongs don't make a right and just because their dad isn't stepping up, doesn't mean it gives their mum a "get out of jail free" card to behave in a way that wouldn't be acceptable if he was a hands on dad.

The failings of a NRP shouldn't IMO, be seen as justification for similar behaviour by the RP. If anything, the responsible parent could behave in a way that ensures that the DCs are disadvantaged as little as possible.
It happens all the time in "together" families; dad makes excuses for mums moody behaviour, or mum compensates for dads lack of attention - in order to make things better for the DCs. And partners are willing to overlook their spouses bad temper towards the DCs, or being oblivious to toddlers tears while watching TV because they love their partner. Once that love is lost, ex-spouses no longer want to accomodate their ex's failings. But by reflecting the ex's failings in their own behaviour (in this case, the OP saying to her ex you choose not to see them the rest of the time, so I'm not letting you see them when you want to ) it is the DCs who ultimately suffer.

I do understand the pain and distress caused by adultery. I have no doubt, that for some, the betrayal lasts for life and the continued, repeated contact that co-parenting requires prevents those wounds from ever healing. And I have no doubt that feckless parents like the OPs ex do their DCs damage. All I'm highlighting is that it is that in some cases it is pain that is motivating the choices of the betrayed parent - and those choices may have a long lasting impact on the DCs - in addition to any damage done by the NRP behaviour.

Wakey you keep on going back to this adultery argument and insisting that OP and others who support her stance are seeking to punish her ex for it. It's been repeatedly stated that the main problem is the fact that he doesn't play a real part in his children's lives but wants to take the children for the entire Christmas period when their mother was more than happy to keep to the previously fully functioning arrangement. She's never had the entire Christmas with her children either, she's not preventing something she has enjoyed herself, just to spite him.