He wants them for Christmas

[foreverdieting]

Hi, my ex had an affair and left me and the kids (then 2 and 4) three years ago. Moved in with the other woman and they live just over an hour away. He has the children over night every other weekend and might have them for a week once a year. He's a good dad and even though they don't want to go initially they enjoy themselves once they are there. I've had them every Christmas since the break up as I feel that it was his decision to leave us and the kids should wake up in their home on Christmas morning.

Anyway he's saying he wants them Christmas eve and Christmas day. I've said that he could come and get them after lunch on Christmas day so we both get to see them. This isn't good enough for him. The thought of not seeing my children Christmas morning breaks my heart, I'm sitting here sobbing trying to ignore his text messages. I don't have any family nearby but do have a boyfriend now who will be here xmas day so I know I won't be on my own. What do I do???

If the OP is terrified that her ex will "take her DCs away" then why on earth is she continuing to permit contact EOW?

I assumed that the OP had interpreted her ex's comment to mean he'd take legal action to secure residency, which is, of course, ludicrous - but if she's terrified he'll abduct them illegally, then the level of contact they currently have seems wholly inappropriate.

Where did anyone say anything about taking them away illegally ? Why on earth would you interpret it that way? Unless of course your intention is (as usual) to divert the argument down a pointless route with your extremely literal "understanding" of what we are trying to say? In which case I can see no further use in discussing this particular point with you.

Wakey you are doing what you do on all threads. Just stop it.

Yes I do think a house you only visit once a week is strange in comparison to your own home.
I asked my dd if we could go away on holiday for Xmas thus year, she said no I want to be at home. I then suggested she could go to her dads whom she loves but sees once a week she was horrified and said no.
To her, her dad's house does feel strange in comparison to her main home.
The op has a very fair system in place despite her understandable feelings. There is no need to change it unless the children express otherwise as they get older.

in your opinion.

It's not just an opinion though is it, it's her experience. She asked her child and that's what she said.

Absolutely my opinion yes.
Everything that comes out of anyone's mouth is based on their opinion, even fact based statements are subject to ones interpretation.
Your point is?

So let me get this straight.

It's not ok for the RP to say no you aren't having them from Christmas Eve through until boxing day but we can do as we have done previously and split it 50/50.

It wouldn't be ok for the RP to say no you are not getting to see the children at all because I want them to spend it here (the reverse of what he is doing)

But it's ok for the NRP to say I'm having them from Christmas Eve through to boxing day because I've decided that's what I want.

It's also ok for the NRP to suggest he will go to court to get residency (pah!) in order to manipulate the OP into agreeing to his demands. It is a threat, if it was really about his children and he genuinely thought they would be better off staying with him then he wouldn't have only brought it up during a disagreement over access about holidays.

Did I miss something here? The OP is being more than reasonable and the only people who are saying that she isn't are people who are not lone parents and are using this forum for their own agenda. Without getting personal, some of these people would be the absolute last I would take any kind of parenting advice from given their own situations.

OP You have been more than reasonable. Stand your ground and tell him that as the arrangements for the last two years have worked out perfectly you see no need to change them. He can like it or lump it. He isn't asking you to consider a change in the arrangement he is trying to control and dictate to you. Ask him to possibly consider fucking off to the far side of fuck. Manipulative twat!

Wow I can't believe the response to this! Thank you to everyone for your input.

Yes it still hurts how we split up, it completely turned my life upside down for a while. However life goes on and I'm happy again, the children seem settled and have a good relationship with their Dad when they see him.

He's had the snip and apparently his girlfriends doesn't want babies because she doesn't want sick on her!! (this is from my 7 yr old so not sure how true it is!).

I haven't spoken to him again about it, i've buried my head in the sand as such.

Part of my would love to be strong enough to go down the court route but with the divorce, house sale (i'm staying put) going on for so long I don't feel I have the energy.

Off to work, will read more later. thanks again :)

OP It doesn't need to be a fight between you. I would tell him once that it isn't happening and that you will continue with the arrangement as normal and then either repeat the exact sentence word for word every time it comes up or just ignore any further messages.

He doesn't control you and you are being completely reasonable.

How would you feel about allowing your children to spend xmas eve night and xmas day morning and lunch and then the afternoon with you. THe reverse of last 2 years - a fair compromise. This allows your children to spend this imprortant time with their father who you say they love.

Don't think about what you are allowing the father. Thnk about what you are allowing the children. They will experience traditions from both paternal and maternal families.

Is the 2 nights a month every other weekend? You could suggest that the father collects on the friday and they stay with him till the sunday every other weekend so that the children see their father more frequently. See if he is interested in that as you don't feel he currently does enough day to day things and he is suggesting he would like to do more

I was thinking about this yesterday. I’m a stepmum (no DCs of my own), and we have never had my SS for Christmas day. Although my DP would dearly love to, and if he went down the court route I suspect he might get ‘every other’ as seems to be the ‘norm’ (involved dad, regular contact, financially supports his son etc), we have never asked SS’s mum, purely because we don’t think it would be right for SS. On his mum’s side SS has a huge extended family, little cousins of similar ages, and they all have a lovely big family Christmas together.

On our side, my DP isn’t close to his family, and I’m an only child, so Christmas at ours would be me DP and SS, or with the possible addition of my elderly parents. How would that be fair for him? It wouldn’t be any fun at all I suspect. When he’s a bit older (he’s a little young to understand now), we will make it clear that if he ever wants to come to ours he will be welcome, and if we have DCs at some point that might make it a bit more appealing perhaps. But for now, although it makes DP sad, he knows that, the right thing for SS is to spend Christmas day at his mum’s, he just wouldn’t get the same experience with us. We make sure we have him the weekend before Christmas, we do the tree together, give him his presents, make a little Christmas dinner, this year we might go to a panto. So we have our own little pre-Christmas celebration which he loves. DP then makes sure he speaks to him on Christmas day morning to ooh and aah over his presents etc.

I don’t understand parents (RP or NRP) who think Christmas with their children is a ‘right’ because of one thing or another. Christmas is the time of year a child looks forward to the most, and I think that all the adults involved need to think about what the child will enjoy the most and that’s the answer really. As adults we can deal with having a bit of a crappy Christmas, it’s just a day, but I can’t imagine the confusion for a little kid who expects Christmas to be the best day of the year and is then served with anything but, because of the choices of the adults around them. If you have a child that will be upset if he or she doesn’t see the NRP (if there is one, obviously 50/50 families are a bit different), then that needs to be accommodated, but I suspect a lot of children from split families probably don’t mind too much provided Father Christmas comes for them!!

I know a lot of children are just at home with their parent(s), or a grandparent, or whoever, like our child would be if we had one together, and Christmases are much quieter for a lot of people, those Christmases are great too (in fact I prefer them!). But that’s the norm for small families, and there’s no decision to be made as to where the children spend Christmas. Where children have two families the choice over where they are and what they do on Christmas day should be about what they will enjoy the most, not anything else.

That's my take on it anyway.....

Where children have two families the choice over where they are and what they do on Christmas day should be about what they will enjoy the most, not anything else.

But if the DCs have never had the opportunity to experience a different type of Xmas, then it's the adults, not the DCs, deciding what they will enjoy most.

Personally, I think it's important that DCs make memories with both their parents. They'll be different memories with each, of course, but I do believe that deciding for them that they would be better off with only one Christmas experience to remember when they are adults is unfair.

I suppose the difference in our case is that we're pretty sure that given the choice, SS would opt to be at his mum's rather than ours as it's more exciting! We will when he's a bit older give him that choice, but we think he's a little too young to deal with it right now and I actually think he would be quite upset to be away from what is his 'main' home and his granny and grandad (his mum's parents) on Christmas morning. And we are making Christmas memories together, just not on Christmas day.

It's a difficult one for sure, there really isn't a right or a wrong way in a split family situation I don't think. OP I would hate to be in your position, difficult to know what to do for the best.....

We alternate. This year my xh has them Christmas Eve from 3pm until 2pm Christmas Day. We meet halfway for the pick up.
Next year we reverse. They are used to it now. I would say you are sticking to your current arrangement but will reverse the timings. Don't be bullied though. My xh won't confirm dates for Christmas but harassed me about the summer holidays next year. It's all control tactics and means I won't be able to book up things - tosser.

Why don't you give him something like 20 days to confirm and if he does not then book something you want to do.

If he gets back to you after just say "sorry you knew I was wanting to book something you had several opportunities to confirm you elected not to"

Personally I think that you do the day in day out slog and probably do the lions share of the parenting and financial support so you should get the majority of special occasions, that's fair. Of course he should see them at Christmas but maybe he could have them later on Christmas Day from tea time onwards? There comes a time when you should let the dc's decide (ds 1 was 10 when he first went to his Dads for Xmas) but yours are still quite young and I bet they'd rather be with you. I'll never forget one year my dsd came to us for Christmas Day as her mum was working, she was only 4 and she broke her little heart wanting her mum all day (was usually fine with us). It was so sad, since then she's always had a choice and she's never chosen to come to ours for the whole thing. My ds1 now alternates between me and exh each year, his choice and he's happy with it. I think it's the dc's who should choose, not the parents.

I think one of the problems seems to be that even what's right for the child often won't be accepted.

I know one case where is year about for Christmas and the child involved hates going to the NRPs house. The NRPS won't back down though even though it is perfectly clear how much the child hates it and wants to be at home.

I really need to stop reading through replies on threads like this because they just piss me off.

OP, I know exactly how you feel. I haven't discussed this Xmas with my ex but we split up 2.5 years ago due to his affair(s). He left me for the last OW who he's still with. I'm not sure what he'll ask for this year and while I want my DS to have plenty of time with him, the thought of not having an Xmas day with him breaks my heart - and in all honesty the thought of OW getting to spend Xmas with him makes me angry and gutted in equal measures.

It sounds like you're offering a reasonable split. And honestly, these years when they're small, Christmas morning is just magical. I know people disagree on here but I do think it's unfair if you have to miss out on Christmas morning particularly in the 'believing' years.

I hope you manage to come to an agreement without too much conflict.

Totorillas - if your sitiation was the reverse would you happy allow the children to live with the father and have every christmas morning with him?

Alba who decides what is right for those children?

A court decided it was the fair thing to do.

I'm wondering who it's fair for because it certainly isn't the child.

the parents could go back to court for a variation if child unhappy but court would have made order on what they believed was best for child

Not what they believe is best. The NRP in the situation will not budge. The RP is in the process of going through a court (for the 3rd time) for various other reasons also. It's not quite as easy as you think.

In the meantime if nothing get's sorted before this 25th of December the RP will be having to send their child off to a house they hate with a father he barely knows or be in breach of a court order it is not a nice predicament to be faced with.

Alba - How often does child see father at the moment?

Have you witnessed the child at the fathers? Sometimes they can be upset in lead up to going to other parent but happy when their but due to wanting to please other parent find it hard to say positive things about visit.

Thats why court have independent assessments done