He wants them for Christmas

[foreverdieting]

Hi, my ex had an affair and left me and the kids (then 2 and 4) three years ago. Moved in with the other woman and they live just over an hour away. He has the children over night every other weekend and might have them for a week once a year. He's a good dad and even though they don't want to go initially they enjoy themselves once they are there. I've had them every Christmas since the break up as I feel that it was his decision to leave us and the kids should wake up in their home on Christmas morning.

Anyway he's saying he wants them Christmas eve and Christmas day. I've said that he could come and get them after lunch on Christmas day so we both get to see them. This isn't good enough for him. The thought of not seeing my children Christmas morning breaks my heart, I'm sitting here sobbing trying to ignore his text messages. I don't have any family nearby but do have a boyfriend now who will be here xmas day so I know I won't be on my own. What do I do???

Christmas - such an emotive time of year.

Parents who claim ownership of their children's time because they deserve it?

NRP - define NRP

I take my mine to school, the doctors, the dentist, holidays, soft play, swimming, birthday parties, read to them at night, tuck them in to bed. be there when they wake up, make them breakfast, make them lunch, make them dinner, bake cakes with them, make their birthday cake, pick her up when they falls, console her her when a boy pushes her...all the things I expect you do and more and all the things you wished your ex would do, you wish I was your ex lets face it...oh, and yes we alternate xmas and NY, we also alternate Easter.

I'm a parent just like you...was there any other qualification required, other than just don't ever query, challenge the views, opinions of the Holy (bitter)Mothers of the Lone Parent board...?

What strikes me about your post, OP is that despite moving on yourself (you say have a boyfriend), and it being three years ago, the betrayal of your ex's affair is a very strong feeling for you. It was the first line of your post - ahead of how you'd feel if you weren't with your DCs at Xmas.

Do you think you'd feel differently about not seeing your DCs on Xmas Day if you and your Ex were apart for different reasons?

Separating the issues out may help you come to terms with the situation. Yes, being cheated on is awful. Being apart from your DCs at Xmas is tough.

Are you linking the two together in your mind as you have done in your OP?

Ah, I have caught up on all the posts now. I wont waste any more breath on replying to certain posters.

Thankfully there are a lot of sane voices on the thread :)

forever you asked What do I do??? You say 'No, your choices are to pick them up after lunch or not at all'. Just keep repeating that and ignore all his bs.

IF you think the children would enjoy spending Christmas with their Dad you can organise it on your terms, for next year. But don't give in to him clicking his fingers demanding to be Disney Dad.

You're wrong there, I'm very glad you aren't my ex but each to their own and all that.

It's not about claiming ownership, the OP is happy to share Christmas as has her ex the last couple of years. It is now him who is demanding a change in the existing arrangements. She isn't saying I'm having the children and that's that. That is coming from him.

I'm unsure how you think you do more than me given you know nothing about my situation. You also know nothing about my ex and what involvement there is between him and my child. I said you are the NRP, something which you have actually said on previous threads I have been on with you.

What a bizarre system of logic you have.

you wish I was your ex lets face it

Oh my word.

I'm not sure we're all lining up for that, no.

Thanks all the same.

I don't know why you want people to define NRP. It's irrelevant to this thread. What is relevant is that he sees sod all of his children (48hrs a month) - he doesn't get to cherry pick the 'fun' moments whilst delegating all of the actual care of his children to his ex wife.

Ha! I've never seen or heard anyone gloat 'you wish I was your ex let's face it...' before.
You're a real life David Brent!!

Must dash, need to don my troll suit and pop over to NetMums...the night is still young...

I don't think they get irony over there either..

Great I'm sure you'll get on famously!

Our loss is their gain

Oh, it's OK, you can wear the same troll suit on both sites

Forever - not read the rest of the thread yet, but just wanted to tell you I feel for you and completely understand. My exh left me and 2dcs, then newborn and 2 years old, nearly 3 years ago, just after Christmas. The first Christmas, he insisted we would have to split it and I would just have to get used to it, and I hated him for it. Like you, I sat and sobbed. I thought the DCs should always at least wake up in their own beds on Christmas morning and we could share lunches perhaps. But like me, you will have to accept that "their own beds" and "their own home" is now also at their dad's house.

In a way I am glad he insisted it from the first Christmas as I have never got used to having them to myself. It is not easy, but you can always make the most of child free time and then the time you have them becomes extra special.

Some people do alternate Christmases but I think while they are so little, neither of us could bear the thought of a Christmas Day with no kids, so we split across the day. One has Christmas Eve/morning, then pick up time is 11am for he other parent who then has Christmas lunch and Boxing Day. I've now done one years of each -weirdly I thought I'd hate the not having them Christmas Eve and morning the most, but in fact it was the other way around. This way I could go out with friends on Christmas Eve, see Christmas in, have a lie in (!) and then collect them and enjoy the rest of the day. Having them Christmas morning just seemed a rush if presents and then off they went.

I know some people prefer alternate Christmases or may need them due to distance (wee are about half hr drive apart which works ok) but if you can do it this system does work.

Good luck, go with it and try to occupy yourself with other things when you don't have DCs - have some grown up christmas celebrations which will make the children ones all the more special. Xx

And just to add to the "it sucks" comments - guess who ALWAYS gets the kids for NYE - a night there is never a fight over ;0)

Also catching up with comments - totally agree with wakeycakey. Would you feel differently if your ex and you had split for different reasons? Is part of your anger due to bitterness at his behaviour? Not saying that's wrong - 3 years down the line, I have a new DP but still feel incredibly bitter towards exh and what happened to my life and my kids lives after get gad an affair and left. I can wish all manner of horrible things on him. But he is not a bad dad and my DCs live him, so I gave to bite my tongue and think of them, and let it go. What is the point of being bitter? The feelings often still well up in me, often at his demands, but you gave to just become emotionless, take a step back and focus on DCs. Good luck x

Socks: you tend to come across quite angry when you come on to threads like these

I spend most of the time on threads like these pointing out that people have lots and lots of different types of arrangements no one singke type of arrangement is the norm and urging people to seek RL respected legal advice from a free source and reminding people that a lot of posters who lurk around the lone parent board don't have a clue about what a court would order in each individual circumstance because as you quite rightly point out and then repeat

I'll repeat, whats best for the kids

You don't seam to be able to grasp that anything other than your personal ideal could be what's best for someone else's children.

One of the benefits of having adult children as well as having very young children all at the same time and being a lone parent is that you have quite a few years of trying out different arrangements with different children and seeing that what is best for one may not be best for another.

1 of my children would very vocally point black refuse to be anywhere other than at my house on Christmas Day but I don't see some of my other children at all from 12th dec to 2nd jan and I haven't for many years they all live with me but their late fathers family live in a different country so that's when they join them there) my DD used to alternate we've done split days and tried loads of other combinations sometimes you have to,to see what works for the children.

One size does not fit all.

Often when posters come on threads like this and their first comment is along the lines of "you are being unfair,the children are not weapons and a court would order you to do xyz anyway so you may as well jump to it and do it" or that is heavely implied its a reply from a rather vitriolic point of view and often directed at op's who have no desire to use the children as weapons.its a but like trying to break an egg with a hammer.

only you know your ex and if he will escalate should you choose not to allow the kids over to his.

She does already allow them over to his. The current arrangement means they both get the kids on Xmas Day, and more importantly the kids get to see both their parents. The ex wants to alter that so he gets them all of Xmas one year and her all next. This is not, as far as I can see, likely to be in the interests of extremely young children. Who live with the OP, and are currently in their own home for Xmas morning, while also seeing Daddy. The only person it suits is the NRP.

Can't imagine why 3xCooked is so explosively angry at any suggestion that the NRP might be unreasonable. It is unfathomable. Oh, wait.

Look at it from this angle - If the mother had the affair and left the husband would you think that the father should have every christmas eve and day every year as the mother has giveup that right by her behavour and breaking up the family. Would the mother no longer have the right to any say in seeing her children??

Would you be saying to the mothe rin this case tough your fault let the children spend every xmas with the important parent.

No because the child deserves to see both parents and experience xmas, special occasions and daily life in both their homes with both their parents. The child has 2 parents and they deserve to be able to love and spend time with both their parents without guilt or problems. The child will have a rounder and richer life if they feel part of both families and not a visitor to one parent. The will feel part of both families if they experience things with both families.

The affair/split is between the adults - do not involve the child in this as the parent hasn't left the child (would you like the child to feel loved or abandoned?)

It's very easy to project our own feelings onto our DCs in these situations - for instance, just because we would feel like visitors in a home we went to so infrequently doesn't mean that's how the DCs feel. They may consider their dads house "home", yet we consider them to be away from home, visiting their dad.

For me it depends on the contact the rest if the year.
If shared care is the norm or at the very least a supportive and frequent prescience then fair enough.
But for a parent who normally had minimal Input through choice and who didn't do at least some of the other stuff such as hobby runs, attending parents evenings school plays etc, then I don't see why once a year they suddenly expect to have the whole of Xmas.
Mine would be devastated at having to spend it on a strange house with their dad who they are lucky to seek once a week.
Stick to your arrangement op, let him try court cos I fear he wil be disappointed.

Strange house with their dad who they are lucky to see once a week

So they go to this house once a week? And it's still strange? I went to my dads flat a maximum of 8 times a year and it still wasn't strange. I went to my grandparents house and paternal aunts house even less but I loved going there. They weren't strange houses either. Perhaps you mean the house is strange to you.

bf1000 look at it from this angle - do you think it's fair that the parent that only bothers to see his kids two nights a month should be threatening the other parent? Do you think it's fair that they should be dictating what happens at Christmas? These children don't even want to go there when it's not Christmas!

and daily life in both their homes with both their parents. The child has 2 parents and they deserve to be able to love and spend time with both their parents without guilt or problems. The child will have a rounder and richer life if they feel part of both families and not a visitor to one parent

He only has them two nights a month, he has chosen to make his children visitors to his home. It is not about him having had the affair, it's about him chosing not to parent them, but treat them like nieces & nephews - at best.

chipping what threats? The OP hasn't mentioned any threats. She says that her ex has stated an intention to change residency and for the DCs to live with him - but that is his legal right, not a statement of intent to harm her. Why would a court deciding what is best for her DCs be a threat to the OP?

In fact, as far as I can see, his statement gives the OP the opportunity to negotiate on her DCs behalf - rather than assuming he is not genuine, she could accept that he does want more time with the DCs and seek to amend the contact arrangements to allow their DCs a more equal paranting balance.

I told him that you get out what you put in and his reply......"if you don't want to be primary carer I'll drop everything and they can come and live with me". He's a bully.

wakey - I never said he threatened to harm her, don't twist my words. He threatened to attain residency if she didn't comply to his wishes. Stop twisting it to make it sound as if he was simply wanting more contact with them. He wasn't - he was using it to get his own way re Christmas.

He isn't asking for 'more time' with them, he's threatening to 'take them off of her' to keep her in line.

Leave it as it is until they are old enough to ask if they can stay xmas eve. Ds2 has always gone to his dads every other xmas eve but he had him 2 nights a week when he was younger and I had to work a shift every other year on Christmas day.

he's threatening to 'take them off of her' to keep her in line.

Why would that even be a threat, though? The OP knows it won't happen, surely? Even the most pro-father court wouldn't change residency in this situation. The only reason to give his comments headspace is to take them at face value and assume that he is genuine in his desire to have more contact with them.

It's sensationalist and over-dramatic to refer to his statement to become primary carer as a "threat" - which is, by definition, an expression of an intent to cause harm.

The threat to take away the children is an well recognised and often used one by controlling or abusive men and no matter how senseless it is, it is terrifying to any mother. The men who use it know this. It's obtuse to say "well she knows it can't happen".

And it IS a threat because it is something that causes fear, a threat does not have to mean physical harm. It is used in order to get his own way.