Terrified of losing children 😞

[charM89]

Okay here's my story any advice please...
I'm private renting, our landlord is evicting us for 2 reasons...
he's selling (no argument ofcourse I understand he needs/wants to sell)
ground 13- we have deteriorated the condition of the property (this one I'm arguing here's why)
We have lived in the property for 10 years, we have had many structual repairs that needed doing, I approached the landlord who told us that due to us not ventilating property it's caused the damp and mould.
I went and bought dehumidifiers, opened windows etc... cleaned all the mould off however the mould would always return!
I called environmental health round an improvement notice was served to the landlord, he was advised of every repair that himself as a landlord needed to fix!
However this was not followed up as the envirmental health officer at the time passed away.
However the landlord was still aware of the problems and chose to not do them!
I contacted environmental health again recently as the damp,mould and other issues were still not resolving no matter how much we cleaned the mould or using a dehumidifier.
A new improvement notice was served to the landlord.
He has now issued us with a section 8 notice using grounds 1a and 13 :(
Again I'm not arguing that he needs to sell, but ground 13 I find extremely unfair as most of the condtion of this property is down to him!
He is now also increasing our rent :(
Ofcourse there are days we forget to open windows and we don't always keep the home to a high level of cleaning, I have depression and anxiety (have done since my son passed) my partner is autistic our 4 year old is autistic and I have a typical teenager!
If we're found to be intentionally homeless due to ground 13 the council won't help us and we are passed to social services which could mean we lose our children :(

Ah its a shame you got moved si far away. My son has autism my other child at the time was doing GCSE. So that made us an in borough need or as close as possible. We were out of borough for about 3 weeks. With both of my evictions. My family were put into flats and houses. Never a b&b , hotel, hostel. So we were pretty lucky.
Glad you sorted now and life is coming together in your new home 🏡

God, twice, I honestly can't imagine the stress! I've got boxes stacked up in my lounge and kitchen still, and still got a storage unit.

This was the closest they had 🙁, it was actually two counties away so made the school stuff really difficult. MIL was onto our MP aswell, but he got one response and said housings a law unto its own at the minute. To be honest, I thought it was a bit futile anyway, they're not keeping houses back for people that complain lol.

I'm really hesitant to unpack fully because we could get a phone call saying there's a temporary house in the town we need at anytime really, we had three days from the Travelodge to this house and it was a nightmare, we've only got a corsa, crazy how much stuff we accumulated.

Hi I work in social services. Housing do not automatically tell social care when someone is intentionally homeless, it is a housing issue not a social care issue and sadly happens to lots of families but absolutely does not mean children are removed from their parents, this type of social care involvement is only in extreme cases where there are serious risks of harm to the children. Families themselves contact social care when housing services are unable to house them and they have nowhere to go, this is for help with accommodation and is not to separate children from parents. Social care do not separate parents and children due to being intentionally homeless. If you and your family moved in with your parents and it was overcrowded this is a housing issue not automatically a social care issue unless it was having a significant impact on the wellbeing of your children - and if this was the case social care would liaise with housing to support you with suitable accommodation.

Sounds mad but I liked of liked it. I think it was because my landlady was awful. And I felt the biggest weight lift on eviction day. Plus I had arranged for our stuff to go into storage 2 nights before we left. We just slept on matteses/air matteses last couple of nights. Also we left the morning of eviction before bailiffs actually came. Which we were allowed to do. So i didn't have my horrible landlady to deal with or the actual bailiffs.

And sorry i think I misunderstood. I thought you had been housed. But your still in temporary but better accommodation? I asked my council what type of temporary mine was and they told me it was long term temporary. So i could settle for a while. I made it into our home best I could. I decorated out new flooring down.etc. but obviously it depends if thats allowed I was. I hope you can settle soon though 💐

Looks like I will be intentionally homeless :( due to not keeping the property very clean, carpet worn, walls have marks.

We've been here 10 years!
I'm expecting social services to be involved and to say I'm nervous is an understatement :(

Whats happened to make you think that?

Housing officer messaged me today :( saying he can't guarantee I won't be found intentionally homeless

What information did you give him for him to say that

Hi OP

I’m really sorry things are so stressful right now. I specialise in homelessness law, so here are the key points that might help alleviate your concerns. The below assumes that you are eligible for homelessness assistance - you will be so long as you are not a migrant with a form of leave that means you do not have recourse to public funds.

Prevention duty

If you’re at risk of homelessness within 56 days, the council will owe you a prevention duty. Under this they must create a personalised housing plan setting out what they will do and what you need to do to prevent you becoming homeless. You don’t have to wait until the exact 56‑day mark, you can ask for help earlier, especially where there is vulnerability in the household. Vulnerability does not* *mean your children should be removed; it means the council should act sooner and take into account what steps you will be able to take.

This duty is owed irrespective of whether you are or are not, homeless intentionally.

The Homelessness Code of Guidance is very clear: families should not be left until the eviction/bailiff stage before help is given. That leads to CCJs, costs, and long‑term damage to your ability to rent, not to mention the impact on your wellbeing. If the council tries to delay you until the last minute, challenge it.

Homelessness due to unfit accommodation

A person is legally homeless if their home is not reasonable or safe to occupy. Ongoing damp and disrepair that hasn’t been resolved may mean your property is not fit to live in. You might want to explore that.

Relief duty and temporary accommodation

If your notice expires before you find somewhere to live or the council accepts that your home is not fit to occupy, you will be homeless and the council will owe you a relief duty. Under that they must provide temporary accommodation as long as you are eligible for assistance and in priority need. You will be in priority need because you have children in your household.

Whether you are intentionally homeless does not matter at the relief stage. They accommodate first, then investigate.

Main housing duty

If you haven’t secured accommodation by the end of the relief duty and the council decides you are not intentionally homeless, they will owe you what is often termed referred to as the main housing duty. that is a duty to secure you settled accommodation. This could be private rented or social housing. Make sure you’re on the social housing register; homeless households get reasonable preference whether or not they’re found intentionally homeless.

Fault‑based eviction and intentional homelessness

Just because your landlord has served a fault‑based notice does not mean the council will accept it at face value. They must investigate themselves, and it’s for them to prove intentional homelessness, not for you to disprove it.

From what you’ve said, it sounds unlikely they would find you intentionally homeless. And if the landlord is selling anyway, you would have been in the same position regardless of any alleged fault so it will be difficult for the Council to come to a view that you are. I doubt very much they will even look into it.

I the unlikely event that the council did find you intentionally homeless, it must allow you to remain in temporary accommodation for a reasonable period to secure alternative accommodation. I would also appeal if they do.

Temporary accommodation

Temporary accommodation is not always ideal. Some councils are extremely stretched and do end up placing families in B&Bs for longer than the statutory limit even though they shouldn’t. Because of this, some households choose to stay put until the landlord reaches the eviction/bailiff stage, or they move in with family/friends if that’s an option.

However, don’t let that put you off asserting your rights. If you need temporary accommodation the council has a legal duty to source suitable temporary accommodation, not just anything available. You are entitled to ask them to act proactively, not passively, and to secure accommodation that meets your household’s needs.

Social services

A duty to refer to social services is a safeguarding measure. Children must never be left homeless i.e. on the streets or in unsuitable accommodation. You will be entitled to temporary accommodation so will not be street homeless.

Even if there were a finding of intentional homelessness (unlikely), that would not of itself cause social services will remove your children. Social services only intervene where there are additional safeguarding concerns, for example, if a child is being neglected, is unsafe, or a parent is unable to care for them.

Where families are eligible for assistance, social services usually have no role beyond basic safeguarding checks due to the fact that a duty will be owed to provide temporary accommodation.

To provide some reassurance, in cases where families have no recourse to public funds and are not entitled to homelessness assistance, social services typically accommodate the whole family together if they would be homeless otherwise. Separating a family is not in the best interests of the child and likely a human rights breach. Unless, as I say, there are other issues. The family is accommodated under s.17. Section 20 applies where a child becomes looked after.

Get support

Please contact Shelter or the CAB. Both can help you navigate the system and help you challenge the council if necessary. They can also help you deal with the section 8 issue.

Hope this helps

Also to add - you will not be intentionally homeless for preventing your own homelessness!

Thankyou so much for this! I needed to read it, I've messaged you I hope that's ok.

So as expected, it’s not damp at all. It IS condensation. And due to poor ventilation by the tenant.

Contractors say anything and all manner of stuff.

You could have a radiator three times the efficiency and size, and if you don’t ventilate it will make zero difference. Blown windows means nothing in terms of mould. Again - it’s condensation. I lived in an old house with single pane windows which streamed at times (eg if I was cooking and left the kitchen door open). No mould because I heated and ventilated. I strongly suspect the landlord didn’t replace the radiator because they know it will make zero difference. You’d just have a hotter room with nowhere for the water vapour to escape to.

The fix could have been, buy a plug in oil radiator if you are really convinced that the room needs to be hotter, open windows daily for at least several hours, wipe down excess condensation on windows. Every single day.

You need to wipe all the black off the walls first , treat and then do the above.

The report from environmental health clearly states "clutter poses a small cause however this is not the major cause in this room"

Also the attic had no insulation so the property was extremely hard to heat!

Also there was water leaking in from the roof, due to missing slats.

So please tell me how this is a tenant problem?

Roof leaks are an easy fix and don’t generally cause mould on the walls. A roof leak is REALLY obvious if it gets to say the top of a bedroom wall. It doesn’t generally cause ongoing mould. And even if a roof was leaking in some areas, unless it was a literal hole in your roof and pouring in, it wouldn’t cause enough condensation to result in mould in the bedroom. A landlord would never leave a huge roof leak because it would cost them too much long term. It’s because the landlord knows that their efforts to fix the roof would be in vain until you are out the property.

But you keeping for example an overcrowded untidy and unclean bedroom, not opening windows for a substantial amount of time every day, not respecting the integrity of the building materials the house is built with depending on the age of the property - they know THAT is the cause of mould. Fixing the roof won’t fix the mould. Your actions need to change, to fix the ongoing mould and they know with you having lived there a long time, that you are never going to change the way you live in the house, so they are selling before you cause structural damage to it that they can’t reverse.

The red flag 🚩 from your posts was your comment that you don’t keep the house perfectly tidy. Or words to that effect. My ex tenants said this ALL the time. I’d turn up to do the physical inspection and be vomiting almost from the stench and way they lived. Yet they’d stand in front of me and claim it was a ‘standard’ level of hygienic. What this always meant in reality was they happily lived in squalor. Overcrowded rooms with too much furniture, clothes everywhere healed on floors, stuffed up against walls (stopping air circulating and stopping brickwork from breathing) , windows shut, cooking with windows shut, showering with windows shut, pets, pets urinating on floors, dust and grime, toilets never cleaned etc etc. A landlord never wants to get rid of a good tenant - because they are like rocking horse shit. I imagine they are just at their wits end and know the damage to the house is going to get worse if they don’t get you out. My advice to you is, that when you find a new place, make a real effort to uphold basic standards of hygiene and cleanliness. And open the windows every single day for a minimum of two hours.

We have ventilated, our home is now very clean. However we make these changes but the landlord doesn't sort the structual repairs!

Structural repair being a missing roof slate and a larger radiator?

🚩 all over the Enviromental health comment on your ‘clutter’. Just like I said.

It’s good news that the attic does not have a lot of insulation. Unless the house is a new build, loft insulation has long been the cause of too much moisture in older houses. All those stupid government grants offering to over stuff the attics of terraced houses in the uk and down the country, have caused a lot of damage. It helps the house breathe to have minimal insulation in the loft. But it’s irrelevant here. You need to keep the house at 18+ and above pretty much at all times. With windows cracked opened daily and wide open after cooking and showering.

No offence but we do ventilate, we have provided dehumidifiers, the landlord has not done his duty!

I will be listening to a profession from environmental health sorry.

You avoided the question. What are the structural repairs that the landlord has not done yet? A slipped/missing roof tile and installing a larger radiator?

...

Which councils are those? The council's social housing allocation scheme is separate to its homelessness service. You don't have to be homeless to be entitled to social housing.

As predicted. This is just a list that confirms there’s mould, a few slipped roof tiles and comments on radiator sizes.

The majority of houses in the uk - the radiators will fall into ‘should be bigger’ category because they change the regs all the time. Do you really think builders up and down the country installed multiple radiators into houses that weren’t sufficient? It would mean half Uk housing stock would be having their radiators ripped out right now. I lived in my terraced house for years with radiators that would theoretically fall into ‘too small’ but no mould.

Most importantly these kind of reports don’t have the Enviromental housing officer stay in the house and watch you live for a month. And that’s the problem. No log or evidence of you ever wiping windows down or keeping rooms at 18+ or opening windows or anything that actually makes the biggest difference. And it’s why I, and you landlord, have/are selling and getting out of the market. It’s not worth the frustrating grief and hassle.

As I predicted you're a landlord!

I'm not shocked