OMG HELP! Is my Uncle scamming my mum??? What to do! (Tenancy agreement)

[JenniferAnistonfan]

• in 2019 mom signed tenancy agreement with my uncle and his wife to help him rent home. She never lived there

• uncle has been subletting it and told my mum few years later he removed her. my mom later learns he never removed her. Meaning he faked her signature each time they renewed contract

• we learn this uncle has some serious dodgy, fraud and scamming history. Moving countries to hide and avoid paying people back, scamming abroad, articles on google about his scamming etc and his own father confirming he scammed fathers army buddies etc

• my mother asks to be removed, he seemed annoyed in phone and stalls for a year claiming landlord is not replying etc

• today I send him firm message saying I want my mom removed from contract. Ask him to give landlords contact details. Tell him replacement tenants will not be a problem as his adult daughter and mother in law moved in a year ago.

• he replies I’ll speak to him.

• calls me saying “give me your email. Landlords lawyer will be contacting you to remove you”

• something feels off so I say lawyer? Please give me his address, phone number and name, I want to contact his directly.

• uncle starts swearing and raising his voice at me, saying I’m being difficult and annoying and wasting peoples time?

• I am now worried given his history will give fake details or pay someone to pretend to be landlord.

• what should I do? I know there’s land registry but I’m worried it will show landlords old address?

• how do I find who landlord is and his real phone and address?

• also does this lawyer thing seem fake?

• and why is he so reluctant to remove my mom from tenancy agreement??? Could he be using her for some sort of scam?

He also told her he is subletting with landlords permission
his relative just told my mom landlord doesn’t know

What relative?

Do they know the landlord to know this?

Does she have a copy of the original tenancy agreement she signed?
This would have the landlord details.
She would then need to send notice to end the tenancy.

The fraudulent signing off the agreement and subsequent subletting is something the landlord would need to deal with.

The landlord is getting his rent and presumably is happy with the amount received. I’m guessing he or she also do annual checks and may well be perfectly happy with more people living in the property than were originally on the tenancy agreement. Different situation for social housing but mum just needs to find out who the landlord is and ask to be removed from the tenancy agreement.

When I rented a house my ex husband was on the tenancy so the affordability met the criteria for a house big enough for our 3 children
he never lived there, he paid maintenance that covered the rent
were we scamming? Questioning myself because I know lots of people who have been in this scenario

Because the landlord thinks she is living there, so in telling him she wants to or has moved out, she’s hoping he’ll take her off the tenancy agreement. Somehow l don’t think it’s that straightforward.

Why are you so hung up on the idea that the land registry might show the land lord's old address? Why not just check, assume it's correct, and take it from there? it's the only way to find out.

If your uncle forged her signature, she is no longer a joint tenant. Go to the police station with your mum, this is the only way to protect her interests. He isnt trying to scam her, he already is scamming her.

No.
This thread is typical of mumsnet with the general lack of understanding of the housing crisis and why people may colour outside the lines to put a roof over their heads. As long as you pay the rent then no harm is done. I did similar for my XH.

I would go the whole hog, given uncles behaviour.
Use land registry to find landlord.
Send him a recorded delivery letter, telling him that your mum had no knowledge of the tenancy, full stop.
I'd not worry myself with the "she signed the first one to pass eligibility checks".
I'd also set up a mail forwarding with royal mail so any post sent to that address in her name gets to you.

The word scam is being used a lot on this thread but nobody is actually being scammed. The landlord is not being scammed out of rent. The mum is not being scammed out of money. The uncle is illegally subletting but that's not scamming.

She may not be though. Could have just gone guarantor if Uncle had bad credit.

How are you going to claim she didn't know about the tenancy when she not only signed it but also provided her financial information to pass affordability checks?! If the landlord was minded to follow this up with the letting agent who set up the tenancy it would be extremely easy to disprove.

Why would she do that? Was she ever planning on living there?

You could read the thread for full answers to this if you wanted but no, she wasn't, and she did it to help her brother get a tenancy

She was obviously a soft touch for uncle even though she knows he was dodgy. Nothing wrong with not living somewhere you lease but you need to pay the rent and take responsibility for the care of the place.

If she is named on the tenancy can she/you contact ll to withdraw it. Was there an agent involved?

It's fraud. She represented herself as a tenant with the intention to deceive.

Is there a reason why you're sorting this out and not your mum?

This is for your mother to sort out, not you. You say she didn't take the advice you gave her previously. That's her choice.

Actually if she was listed as a guarantor and there has since been a rent increase guarantor agreements can be very hard to enforce- it’s a legal grey area- particularly if she wasn’t given notice about any rent increase.
Use the Land Registry to search for the legal owner and contact them direct. Costs about £7.

The answer to the problem is really simple and all of the above is actually irrelevant. If your mum no longer wants to be liable for rent she needs to give notice if it’s a rolling tenancy. However this will end the tenancy for all. If it’s a fixed term she needs to check if there is a break clause or if the landlord is will accept early termination. Or fixed term will be come rolling may 1st and 2 months notice can be given

Getting the rent isn't the only consideration that the landlord has - their property insurance might be invalid if it is over-occupied, or if it is a flat then it might be covered by anti-sub-letting restrictions out of their control, which they will be legally responsible for upholding.

No because they will say the uncle and his wife (the other supposed tenants) will supposedly stay living there. What a mess.

Maybe ring around letting agencies in your area?

Google the property and you might see the old Lettings advert on right move etc and you’ll see the agent from when it was last listed

But she wouldnt be living their as a tenant. So it wasn't fully honest. It was deception. However, it needs to be sorted. See a solicitor and let them deal with the problem. If you can't afford to do that then good idea from other posters get hold of title deeds.