OMG HELP! Is my Uncle scamming my mum??? What to do! (Tenancy agreement)

[JenniferAnistonfan]

• in 2019 mom signed tenancy agreement with my uncle and his wife to help him rent home. She never lived there

• uncle has been subletting it and told my mum few years later he removed her. my mom later learns he never removed her. Meaning he faked her signature each time they renewed contract

• we learn this uncle has some serious dodgy, fraud and scamming history. Moving countries to hide and avoid paying people back, scamming abroad, articles on google about his scamming etc and his own father confirming he scammed fathers army buddies etc

• my mother asks to be removed, he seemed annoyed in phone and stalls for a year claiming landlord is not replying etc

• today I send him firm message saying I want my mom removed from contract. Ask him to give landlords contact details. Tell him replacement tenants will not be a problem as his adult daughter and mother in law moved in a year ago.

• he replies I’ll speak to him.

• calls me saying “give me your email. Landlords lawyer will be contacting you to remove you”

• something feels off so I say lawyer? Please give me his address, phone number and name, I want to contact his directly.

• uncle starts swearing and raising his voice at me, saying I’m being difficult and annoying and wasting peoples time?

• I am now worried given his history will give fake details or pay someone to pretend to be landlord.

• what should I do? I know there’s land registry but I’m worried it will show landlords old address?

• how do I find who landlord is and his real phone and address?

• also does this lawyer thing seem fake?

• and why is he so reluctant to remove my mom from tenancy agreement??? Could he be using her for some sort of scam?

OP, are you taking any of the excellent advice that posters have kindly given you? You come here and do a lot of hand wringing but don't actually do anything that has been suggested to you. The posters have displayed incredible patience with you and shown a lot of kindness.

Whilst yes it was foolish of your mum it’s also fraud

I think it’s literally a blank template she’s buying - in the same way you can buy a blank will for a couple of quid then have it notarised

If he forged her signature, she's not "on the agreement" anyway.

I'd inform the police re the fraud and the council re the illegal HMO.

Maybe it's time to let your mum sort out her own messes, and keep yourself out of it? It sounds like there's a pattern in your family of people trying to make others responsible for the problems they've created. Time to change the pattern.

So she did scam the landlord if she never lived there or intended to live there. And she's responsible for half the rent. However if he's been forging her signature on tenancy renewals you can just report this to the landlord. You can track the landlord down from the Property Register. But I would be very careful as it's far more likely she's a guarantor and that's much harder to get out of.

A previous poster asked why your mum hasn’t obtained legal advice from a solicitor or CAB. Can you answer that question? Any meeting would be privileged and confidential so she can be entirely transparent about what has happened without fear of repercussions.

You do realise that, in signing the tenancy agreement initially, she is liable for the rent and any damage to the property? After so many years, this could be a significant amount.

No emails at all, in the sent or deleted items?? Youve been told to download the titles for the property by many.

I think your Mum needs to get a copy of the land registry and then seek legal advice. She may have meant well, in signing the tenancy agreement but she's committed fraud. Of course your Uncle doesn't want to give you the landlords details, by removing your Mum's 'income' from the affordability check, it's likely they will fail to be able to afford the property. He's never going to remove your Mum from the tenancy agreement willingly.

Unless there are easier ways already suggested, I'd go to all the estate agents in the area and ask about the flat address re: ownership. Either one if then will know who owns it or they might service the flat for the owner.

@JenniferAnistonfan what is yours or your mums actual concern? She signed up to this agreement 7 years ago knowing she wasn’t going to move in - so what has changed to cause all of this concern?

You say she has checked her credit file so it doesn’t sound like there is a problem there.

Then there is the subletting which the landlord doesn’t know about. If the landlord finds out he may apply to terminate the tenancy, which would solve your mums problem (which is if her own making). Is that why you want the landlords details; so you can inform him of the subletting? Granted if your uncle refused to move and the landlord took the tenants to court to evict, that would include your mum as a named tenant.

The only other thing I can think of is that your mum wants to move/borrow money and is concerned that a financial link to your uncle will show up - but you can link at financial associates in your credit report.

i just want to understand what is concerning your mum now which wasn’t a concern to her 7 years ago.

Is your uncle actually paying rent though, because as joint tenants your mother is also liable.

Epically stupid doesn’t touch the sides.

And underhand…

He's been there 7 years. If he wasn't paying rent he would have been evicted a long time ago. There is no reason to think he's not going to pay the rent, clearly he wants to keep living there.

She said they rent directly from the landlord. Even if there was a letting agent (not estate agent) involved they wouldn't tell OP, a random, anything about the contract they have with their client!

Surely, the owner of the property will be on the deeds with Land Registry? Can’t you search there for the registered owner?

Well that is obviously illegal to sign a document pretending you will be living somewhere and contributing to the rent, when you know you won't be. She lied on the form (though for kind reasons I guess, to help her brother).

I think she should see a solicitor and explain it all to them. They will act in her best interests not lecture her although she did do something wrong.

I'm guessing all landlords are different but if your Mum signed the tenancy agreement back in 2019, and hasn't signed anything since. Does that mean the landlord has never asked all the tenants to sign a new tenancy on a yearly basis or has simply allowed the original signed in 2019, to keep rolling???? Or has your Uncle been signing your Mum's name on her behalf ever since???? The fact the landlord isn't aware of the subletting, suggests to me, that the landlord hasn't been checking the property on a regular basis. Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if the 2019 tenancy agreement has just been allowed to keep rolling, and no one has been asked to sign anything further since.

She was naively trying to help her brother.

So in that case she’s on an equal footing with him she needs to go direct to the LL

What else has your uncle signed her up to? Loans? (if he's forged her signature on the subletting there's proof he's prepared to use her signature to get what he wants)..... What else is she liable for? Does he have a car? Is that in her name too perhaps (on the credit agreement)?

Affordability checks are there for a reason - what was your mums plan when the uncle couldn’t afford to live there?

He sounds like a coercive bully but your mum should have stood up for herself at the start and refused.

She could be liable for more than half the rent if the tenancy is one that creates joint and several liability.

So your mum agreed to commit fraud? And now doesn’t want to anymore 🙄

Our guarantor doesn't have to sign the tenancy renewal yearly