Omg did my uncle scam my mother?? Is this fraud? Tenancy agreement. Says he removed her 6 years ago but never did?

[KylieAndBaby01]

Today I learn in 2019, my mother signed a tenancy agreement as a joint tenant with her brother and his wife.

Last minute something serious happened, she changed her mind, and on moving day, she never moved in. She stayed in her old flat.

Now she didn’t speak any English. And doesn’t know any laws, rules, anything like that.

My brother does and told her it’s no problem, landlord agreed and we will remove you, swap you for another person. She asked him multiple times after if she’s removed, and he assured her to “relax, everything’s taken care of, you are no longer on the agreement”. It’s very stupid and ignorant, but she trusted her brother.

A few days ago, a mutual friend says she is still on the contract and he never removed her! 6 years she’s had two tenancy agreements! Two addresses!

She calls to ask, he admits she isn’t, says he forgot to! (He’s been subletting the property)

If during these 6 years he renewed the contract, does that mean he faked my mothers signature????????

And Heres the problem:

She’s applied for enhanced DBS, a new job, 2 weeks ago, will they learn she has been registered at 2 different addresses??? She only told them one where’s she lives 5 years. Is this going to affect her DBS???

Shes also been receiving universal credit (low income). What if they find out she’s been registered at 2 addresses and think of this as benefit fraud???

What should she do next?

The brother now says he will tell the landlord but shes very shocked and angry. She doesn’t trust him anymore. She says she’s been very stupid.

She asked for the landlords number and agency’s name but he’s saying he’ll take care of it himself.

Any advice?

(My mother just moved to the country back then, so didn’t speak English and didn’t know much)

If during 6 years contract was renewed, does that mean he faked her signature??

We had to renew every year and we had to sign a new contract. Yes it does sound to me your uncle has forged her signature.

Work with reality on this. There is no point worrying about the what ifs, when you have no way of being able to know what those could be.

even if your uncle forged his sister's signature on the tenancy agreement, that isn't to say that the uncle has used the TA to obtain benefits. Can you or your mother contact DWP and check with them what address they hold for her. Say honestly that you are concerned about fraud and that your mother has lived at [current address] for 6 years, and want to ensure she isn't showing as living in another address. Honesty is the best policy, DWP want facts.

She’s applied for enhanced DBS, a new job, 2 weeks ago, will they learn she has been registered at 2 different addresses??? She only told them one where’s she lives 5 years. Is this going to affect her DBS???

if DBS check picks up both addresses, all she has to do is be honest, stick to the facts. She surely must have proof where she is living now, eg utility bills, mobile phone bills etc.

Was there any benefit or advantage to your uncle keeping her on the tenancy? Why would he do that? Was he utilising her clean credit history for example?

He mumbled something about it’s the only way he and his wife were allowed to rent a 3 bedroom home on their salaries and sublet?

Yes!!! The mutual friend said she heard he has terrible credit history. A bunch of loans and he is in debt.

A relative and his ex and daughter who I spoke to today confirmed this too

I have rented 3 different properties for years (consecutively not concurrently!) Each time I signed the initial 6/12 month lease and then they went on to a 'rolling contract' and I have never signed any additional paperwork, so I'd better that no signatures have been forged.
Also, I could be wrong, but unless she has signed up to vote, registered for council tax or used the address for work (so making HMRC aware) I don't think (could be wrong) that she would be technically registered at the property and shouldn't cause any problems with universal credit or a DBS application.

I imagine the benefit to your uncle, would have been that the salary of all of the tenants would be combined for him to 'pass' the affordability part of the application.

It's shit that your uncle has lied and broken your DM's trust, but I really wouldn't worry about a negative impact on her, if nothing has cropped up to now - do make sure she is removed though just to make sure no issues do arise

The only people who will know about the tenancy agreement are the landlord and the tenants, so just her name being on there isn't going to be an issue. As far as I can see, the issues will start if;

• Her brother stops paying rent, she will be jointly liable and can be chased for payment.

• Her brother has also added her to things like council tax, electoral role, etc as they then will show her more widely as having 2 addresses (and liable for council tax if her name was on that).

• Her brother uses the tenancy agreement to try to fraudulently claim benefits (though I presume he'd need more than a name on a tenancy agreement to do that)

Her brother is potentially going to get in bother with the landlord for subletting, which could put is tenancy at risk, but I can't see that having much impact on your mother - having a tenancy ended which she doesn't want anyway, other than potentially being liable for court costs if it ever got that far.

He's likely not done it for anything other than getting past affordability criteria. He's more defrauding the landlord than your mother. She's still best being off their though so she's got no liability for payment to the landlord if her brother can't or doesn't pay.

Yep, sounds deliberate and fraudulent to me. I wouldn't trust the brother as far as I could throw him. I would assume that he doesn't have permission to sub-let, either, and I would worry that your mum would be considered liable for any damage to the property. I think they can go after either tenant for the whole value of any damage, regardless of who it was caused by, it will go more on who is more likely to pay up. Obviously she isn't a tenant but it will be up to her to prove it.

However, I have no idea how you can sort this mess out without his co-operation. Possibly by reporting fraud to the police?

I expected this was the reason, he didn't forget, he knew he couldn't pass affordability checks without her on there. He may not have signed another contract, you often move automatically to rolling month to month tenancy if a new contract isn't offered and tenancy isn't ended by either party.

I don't think there's any central way tenancies are listed and if she's not on council tax or voting register at that address I don't think it will show on the enhanced DBS. She does absolutely need to get removed whatever that costs him as she could in theory be legally liable for any missed rent or damage. Usually it's joint and several, so any party can be gone after for the full amount of missed rent or damages. Maybe they can add the person subletting instead as a tenant instead.

Since your mum hasn’t had anyone hassling her for money it doesn’t sound like your uncle has scammed your mum in a way which has cost her anything (yet). It seems most likely he has used her to meet the affordability requirements and doesn’t intend for her to be out of pocket. He may have forged her signature on newer agreements, but the original may have just rolled over without the need for anyone signing again. But it is still a risk to her and dishonest, potentially fraudulent, on his part.

Having a tenancy agreement does not mean you are “registered” at that address. A tenancy agreement is just a contract between the people who sign the agreement. It doesn’t have a larger official purpose. Landlords don’t add your name to a register or anything. Your mum is resident where she says she is resident. Unless your uncle has gone further than failing to remove her from the tenancy, she doesn’t have to worry about her DBS check. And if he has gone further she will have the opportunity to correct the record, though it may take some time.

She should probably get a credit report - that should show who has run credit checks on her and if your uncle has tried to do anything more - it shoudl show up there. If the landlord has run a credit check on her recently she may be able to use the information to contact them and remove herself from the tenancy. If not, a land registry check may give her the contact info she needs.

2 years ago they invited a Ukrainian refugee into her house, the wives elderly mother.

She receives money from the government as she is 75

To get benefits/pension credit, don’t you need proof of address? Tenancy agreement?

Which means they must have changed the contract to add her in? And when they were doing that, didn’t remove my mum???

I wouldn’t panic over this. If she hasn’t registered that address for bills, driving licence, voting, banks etc and her credit history is clean then it won’t be a problem.

She could call the local council and see if she is on the council tax account and also call the landlord/lady. If she doesn’t have details she can find the property owner from land registry.

You don’t need to be on tenancy agreement to register at an address for benefits etc.

So I just got a phone call and learn:

Turns out it is a fixed tenancy agreement! Not a rolling one!! They last signed it 7 months ago!!

Which means he did fake my mother’s signature???

I would be questioning who is giving out information that is nothing to do with you, are privacy laws important these days ? And this early?

@Edingril it's probably @KylieAndBaby01 mum has phoned her as in 'just got a phone call' and said this, because her mum phoned the landlord/letting agency and (as tenant) was told this.

I mean my mum called

Why would he do that though? Is it because he can't pass the affordability checks himself, or because he wants to sublet surreptitiously?

I think you're overreacting a bit. There hasn't been any consequences yet re DBS etc so gather what evidence you can and sit tight. Then when you've calmed down a bit think about what you want to do about the forged signature. Personally I'd let the past go however you now can't trust he won't continue to do it. So something needs to be done about it only when the dust has settled and you're feeling level headed. If you go barrelling into the police shrieking FRAUD then the police will just at you and not do anything. If you go in and explain, with evidence, and say you want it filed/him spoken to so it doesn't happen again, at least you'll have a papertrail on record if he does pull this shit in the future.

I own a letting agency and all of this.

My main concern would be council tax and responsibility of rent.

I guess I’m worried because his daughter/American ex/in laws/ex friends I spoke to say he has a history of lying/scamming people abroad.

E.g asking to loan money from people and then never paying back/disappearing

Apparently he owes people/relatives/friends thousands and thousands??

So now I’m worried what else he could of done.

My concern is that if her name is on the tenancy agreement, and it is a standard AST agreement with joint and several liability, she is potentially on the hook for the entire rent if your uncle stops paying.

I would get in touch with Shelter and/or the CAB for advice.

NB: The Landlord should have protected the deposit, if there is one, in a recognized deposit scheme such as the DPS. You could try and get in touch with each of them to see if your mother is listed with them.

The only real issue is she's jointly liable for the rent, so if it's not paid they could go after her. The DBS thing won't cause an issue. She should contact the landlord and explain the situation to him. Get him to agree that she has surrendered the tenancy.
He may not have signed a new contract each year. We get our tenant to sign one and then it's periodic after the fixed term.

If your mother is on the Tenancy Agreement she can also unilaterally decide to terminate the whole tenancy once out of the fixed period. Some Tenancy Agreements have break clauses also, so it might be possible to do this within the fixed term.
There is normally no provision to just remove a name. The old tenancy has to end and a new one be created to add or remove people.