OMG HELP! Is my Uncle scamming my mum??? What to do! (Tenancy agreement)

[JenniferAnistonfan]

• in 2019 mom signed tenancy agreement with my uncle and his wife to help him rent home. She never lived there

• uncle has been subletting it and told my mum few years later he removed her. my mom later learns he never removed her. Meaning he faked her signature each time they renewed contract

• we learn this uncle has some serious dodgy, fraud and scamming history. Moving countries to hide and avoid paying people back, scamming abroad, articles on google about his scamming etc and his own father confirming he scammed fathers army buddies etc

• my mother asks to be removed, he seemed annoyed in phone and stalls for a year claiming landlord is not replying etc

• today I send him firm message saying I want my mom removed from contract. Ask him to give landlords contact details. Tell him replacement tenants will not be a problem as his adult daughter and mother in law moved in a year ago.

• he replies I’ll speak to him.

• calls me saying “give me your email. Landlords lawyer will be contacting you to remove you”

• something feels off so I say lawyer? Please give me his address, phone number and name, I want to contact his directly.

• uncle starts swearing and raising his voice at me, saying I’m being difficult and annoying and wasting peoples time?

• I am now worried given his history will give fake details or pay someone to pretend to be landlord.

• what should I do? I know there’s land registry but I’m worried it will show landlords old address?

• how do I find who landlord is and his real phone and address?

• also does this lawyer thing seem fake?

• and why is he so reluctant to remove my mom from tenancy agreement??? Could he be using her for some sort of scam?

@JenniferAnistonfan your "mom" needs to unweave herself from this deceitful and illegal contract. Did she ever make money from it? Not that it makes any difference to the morals of her actions.

No.

she years later found out he was subletting and he lied, said landlord knows and gave him permission to

She needs to pull out of it. Forthwith. I hope her db doesn't throw her under the bus.

Really? I'm simply sent an electronic tenancy document via email where I get to choose which electronic 'signature' I want to use with a button and that's it. No face to face meetings. I've been there nearly 20 years. To be honest, it could be anyone 'signing' the document if they had access to my email.....this is in London.

Regards the op....jesus. Others have very patiently offered good advice, especially YiddlySquat. Good luck

If it's now a rolling tenancy, then there's no signing of new annual contracts

You can't just remove one person from a joint tenancy. If someone leaves, the whole tenancy is automatically ended, and anyone who wants to stay in the property has to agree a new tenancy with the landlord. Which is probably why uncle is hanging this out ... would he and his wife meet the income requirements by themselves now? If not, they'll have to leave.

I don't understand why you are so resistant to getting land registry details. It might not be the landlords current address, but it probably is. All you'll lose is £7 if it isn't.

And yeah, your mother was involved in scamming the landlord at the start of this, not sure why you think she wasn't.

... in 2019. Seven years ago!

2024 wasn't 7 years ago.

Honestly OP I would leave them all to it. Your uncle seems to be managing the tenancy fine, clearly he's paying the rent whether he's subletting or not, and has done for 7 years. Your mum can't help herself because she knows nothing and you're stressing yourself out over a situation that is not of your making and you can't do anything about. If the landlord was inspecting the property annually he would notice that more people are living there - he's probably satisfied that the rent is being paid and no complaints are coming in from neighbours.

PP is right that she can't just remove herself from the tenancy, the uncle will need to have a new tenancy agreement created without her on. I'm sure he wants to avoid that as it's unnecessary risk (for him) of not passing affordability checks and potentially having to leave his home.

Nothinf bad has happened in the past 7 years, chances are nothing bad will continue to happen.

The link to the last article showed OP saying 'Today I learn in 2019'. I meant it happened 7 years ago but realise the post was in 2024.

They both make good money now and his two adult daughters and mil moved in who make money so makes no sense why he doesn’t want to

i guess I don’t see it as scamming because she thought she was simply helping people be able to rent a property. As it’s very hard in London. Dishonest yes. She didn’t know he would sublet and didn’t think anything bad would come out of this./

that would hurt landlord. The landlord has been paid on time no problems for 7 years. And her brother always paid landlord on time and there were no problems.

Very stupid and naive, yes, but I don’t think it’s scamming

This is not the case. Providing the tenancy agreement is outside of the fixed term, either joint tenant can give notice in accordance with the tenancy agreement and the tenancy ends for all parties. However a new tenancy will be deemed if one of the parties moves out before or on the date of crystallisation of the notice and after the end of the tenancy one of the parties remains, but only if the landlord accepts rent from the remaining occupant.

As your mother never moved in I'm not convinced she has a tenancy but I'm very sure the other signatory does.

I'm not sure your mother should worry about it, unless she owns her own property or has a lot of capital. If she does I would advise getting a legal opinion from a practitioner in this area. I'd use Liz England from 5 Paper for an opinion.

Just pay the bludclot £7 land registry and go to the lettings agent. Why are you still posting ?! That’s all the advice you need.

Just search the land registry to find the owner. If the owner is a company, go on companies house and see who the director is. Then use the electoral roll to find out their details. Assuming the property isn’t owned by a shell company offshore this is your easiest way to find out the truth.

have you checked the land registry and the deposit certificate??or is it more fun to just repeat over and over oh no I heard somewhere that sometimes the registry details are out of date so even though there must be a 98% chance the details are
correct for this house I will just keep panicking here and absolutely not check it. If you haven’t checked, nobody on this thread can help you. Because you won’t let them.

Eh?
I think some landlords don't care.
My sister's landlords drops of a quickly done up agreement every year, and then picks it up a few days later, he also hardly fixed anything, but because the rent really good, my sister just pays for repairs herself when they're needed.

@JenniferAnistonfan , this is absolutely rubbish advice. You aren't just going to let whatever nonsense is going on because of fear of pissing off your dodgy uncle.

You had some very good advice above to contact the landlord or letting agents.
Don't let this slide. Get your mum's name out of whatever dodgy thing your uncle is involved.
Also, forging your mum's signature is criminal. I would get some legal advice first before pursuing this aspect because of your mum signing a lease for a property she was not going to rent may sully the 'clean hands' theory they consider in law.
Your mum did a kind thing for her brother unfortunately he is undeserving. So it's now considered unwise but she's hardly committed a crime of the century.

Because she’s in on the scam.

On 1st May all tenancies become periodic and any one party can give notice to end the tenancy. Spend the time between now and then finding the landlord and then serve 2 months notice on 1st May. It will mean everyone leaving on 1st July but other than being really stupid to have signed a joint tenancy in the first place with no intention of living there and then letting this go on for so long in the name of helping out a family member it is pretty much what the uncle deserves. It will end his tenancy and he will have to deal with the sub letters.

Just look up the property details on Zoopla where you should be able to see previous listings, which will have estate agent details. Then contact the agent and explain you need to contact landlord. They’ll be able to pass on a message.

You say he’s been forging her signature to sublet rooms but also make it sound as though these sublets are very informal so he might not have needed to do that. However, I’d be worried about the possibility of him forging her signature to achieve other things - take out loans, use her as a guarantor etc. I’m a lawyer and have a client currently being sued under a guarantee for several million pounds, which he didn’t sign. He’s in a very stressful situation facing expensive litigation to get out of this.

The safest bet is land registry. Even if it’s an old address, keep a copy of correspondence and Royal Mail recorded delivery receipts.

if no response then go down other routes suggested by PP.

no one is going to fix this for you, your mum needs to spend some money to fix this.

You’re just going round and round in circles on this thread. Back history or no history, just get on with it !

One party can serve notice to end a joint tenancy now. No need to wait: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/joint_tenancies/how_to_end_a_joint_tenancy.

The owner of a home can be checked via the Land Registry.

But the landlord may refuse to sign the brother (and his household) to a new tenancy. So they could all lose their home. Hopefully, the landlord will agree if they’ve paid rent for 7 years and been good tenants.

But your mum shouldn’t be on a tenancy if she doesn’t live there, as she’s liable for rent etc. She doesn’t have to say she’s moving out (that’d be a further lie). She simply has to serve notice to end the joint tenancy. No explanation needed.

OP, your mum should check her credit rating.

Why are you yourself buying a tenancy agreement for where you live?

Why haven't you at least checked land registry? You have said that it may be an old address for the landlord but don't seem to have even tried!