OMG HELP! Is my Uncle scamming my mum??? What to do! (Tenancy agreement)

[JenniferAnistonfan]

• in 2019 mom signed tenancy agreement with my uncle and his wife to help him rent home. She never lived there

• uncle has been subletting it and told my mum few years later he removed her. my mom later learns he never removed her. Meaning he faked her signature each time they renewed contract

• we learn this uncle has some serious dodgy, fraud and scamming history. Moving countries to hide and avoid paying people back, scamming abroad, articles on google about his scamming etc and his own father confirming he scammed fathers army buddies etc

• my mother asks to be removed, he seemed annoyed in phone and stalls for a year claiming landlord is not replying etc

• today I send him firm message saying I want my mom removed from contract. Ask him to give landlords contact details. Tell him replacement tenants will not be a problem as his adult daughter and mother in law moved in a year ago.

• he replies I’ll speak to him.

• calls me saying “give me your email. Landlords lawyer will be contacting you to remove you”

• something feels off so I say lawyer? Please give me his address, phone number and name, I want to contact his directly.

• uncle starts swearing and raising his voice at me, saying I’m being difficult and annoying and wasting peoples time?

• I am now worried given his history will give fake details or pay someone to pretend to be landlord.

• what should I do? I know there’s land registry but I’m worried it will show landlords old address?

• how do I find who landlord is and his real phone and address?

• also does this lawyer thing seem fake?

• and why is he so reluctant to remove my mom from tenancy agreement??? Could he be using her for some sort of scam?

In 7 years? The rent will have gone up

Your mum needs to get proper legal advice. You are not a lawyer. She committed fraud and needs to take responsibility for cleaning the mess up. At the moment it sounds like she's burying her head, combined with acting innocent and its not going to get her anywhere. She needs to get out from under the situation, and the first step would be getting legal advice and being completely honest.

I was going to ask if joint and several liability still applies to tenancies.

If it does, and your uncle stopped paying the rent, they could come after your mother for the rent debt and costs, OP. She needs to get herself off that tenancy to protect herself.

Rental properties in London have to be licensed. Look up the address on the relevant borough to see if it was licensed and for how many people.

The other way to solve problem:

"Dear Uncle Buck

I have used to landregistry to track down the Landlords name and contact details.

You have 7 days to get my Mothers name removed from the fraudulent tenancy agreement agreement and send evident that its done.

Or we will be informing the landlord(and there mortgage provider) that you have been illegally subletting.

The police will be informed that you've forged my mothers signature on a legal document as well

Yours... "

Given that your Uncle probable doesn't want to homeless or questioned about fraud... he's going to sort it out.

If he doesn't do as you ask (I think he will) tell the landlord you mum moved out 6.5 year ago and uncle promised he'd tell the landlord...

Regardless of some naivety on your mothers part getting into this, your ask of how she gets out is very reasonable.

I would be:

• tracking down current landlord and registration via land registry and relevant borough.
• Writing to them and Uncle in a joint letter saying she is not a tenant, never have been, and would like to be removed from all agreements on the rent.
• Following this up to ensure she is removed.

That would be enough for the borough and landlord to look more closely at the uncle and his behaviour. Most councils have anti-fraud teams and housing officers - I know as they used to visit my property on occasion. A gentle letter / email to them would trigger investigation.

Your situation sounds as dodgy as your Mother's! Why are you all so happy to live in such a reckless way?!

I am thinking that Mum needs her own Solicitor.
seems like this is going to get messy.

The average mumsnetter has no idea how difficult it can be to keep a stable roof over your head when you have a below average salary and can't get a mortgage. Why are you blaming OP for her landlord's practices?

Not really. If she can track down the landlord she just needs to inform him that she doesn't live there any longer. The whole thread is a hand wringing drama that is not necessary.

What on earth makes you think the OP and her mother would want the uncle to be investigated for fraud? They just need the mother to be cleanly extracted from the tenancy agreement which is hardly likely to happen if she starts claiming she never was a tenant is it? She signed the tenancy agreement, now she needs to extract herself as simply as possible.

A solicitor?

For what?

To do what?

Mum just needs to get the landlord to take her off the tenancy and remind the landlord that he has no evidence of her signing the renewed contracts (if indeed she is on the renewed rolling tenancy contract).

Of course that's not legal! If you sign to say you're renting somewhere, and don't, you're subletting yourself.. your mum is just as bad!

He will not have forged her signature though I don't think. When I rented, we never physically signed another contract. It was a phone call to say do you want to stay, we said yes, so we just kept paying the rent.

They could still suggest where to find their details or suggest they contact the landlord and give OPs details for them to contact.

If she has agreed to be a Guarantor then she will neeed to be removed properly and it may be that the landlord gives notice
IF she is actually on the Agreement then she has probably been complicit in fraud BUT if she gives notice then the Agreement ends for all of them.
The Landlord may agree that another Tenant may be added but that is none of your Mums concern, she does not need a replacement to remove the responsibility from her.
However, it does depend on what the contract says aas if she "leaves" before the end of the contract she my have some liability until it actually ends if its fixed term. The new Renters Rights Act that will apply in May will change the situation slightly though as there are no fixed term tenancies and she can give 2 months notice on May 1st at the earliest

Yep. Do this.

What!? How?

my landlord owns the property and I rent directly from him without estate agent and he doesn’t want agency and he manages the property himself

I take care of repairs and the tenancy agreement template

we both sign every year

we have tenancy agreement

how is this dodgy and reckless???

is that illegal too??? What law is being broken?

Of course it’s not dodgy for a private landlord to rent to a tenant without using an agency. I am a landlord with long term tenants and don’t use an agency. All above board. Tenancy agreement. Protected deposit. Rent declared and tax paid

The only dodgy bit is your landlord expecting you to provide the tenancy agreement (that's his job) and that you appear to be paying for one? You can produce a valid tenancy agreement for free from any of the websites that produce them, or use AI to create a simple one yourself for free

Landlord’s job to do a lot of repairs and he or she should be providing the tenancy agreement.

is your deposit protected?

Don't be ridiculous 🙄 plenty of people rent directly. Often a landlord uses an agency at the start then manages the property ongoing. "Reckless" is ever so slightly dramatic. Still full requirement to use TPS and make repairs etc.

They don't need him investigated, its a threat to scare the uncle into sorting out the mess. Its just about applying leverage.... he's not been doing the right thing, withholding details, lying.... so you make him fix it be threatening to shop him.... simples

I thought that the mil was 75 (in 2024) and was a Ukrainian refugee that was “getting money from the government”? How many more in this 3 bed house are actually there?

Agreed. And yet OP still not taking practical advice 1 year down the line!