Land dispute

[zarah21]

Desperately need advice!

My dad died 9 years ago with no will. He had nothing but a piece of land co shared (as tenants in common), with another chap, let's say Bob. Bob didn't use the land anymore. Only my dad had keys. When my dad passed, Bob sold his half to Bill, via a "gentlemen handshake" and Bill quickly broke the locks, put up new fencing, felled the trees, tarmaced it etc.

My sibling never applied for probate, saying dad had no assets, also never changed land registry. Still in dad's name.

I don't know where to start....

Do we apply for probate to amend registry?.. Or could I still lose the land regardless, given Bill can now apply for Adverse possession? Would a land registry change to our names strengthen any counter claim?

Bill tried to give us £3k for the land. We declined, it's worth way more. We asked Bill to pay rent, he declined, he was already on the land, so why would he? He said we could try get him off land but the said he would charge us for the felled trees, 6k he said! We felt backed into a corner and have been sitting ducks ever since.

We are at 9 years now, and very worried we may lose the only thing dad had. We just never knew how to keep it without spending lots of money to get Bill off the land.

This is the most stressful situation. And it's. Going on for years now. Don't get me wrong, day to day living is normal, but every so often, I feel crippling anxiety by the weight of it all.

What can I do? Please help.

You can do it, not your sibling. You can give your best estimate. All they are interested in is that the assets were not above the inheritance tax levels at the time of death.

I must need bank balances though, surely? I don't want to get "done"

No, your sibling won't be in trouble (and nor will you). If you don't have bank balances, you can give your best estimate. If the estate is well below the IHT threshold, no-one will care if you get it wrong.

What an arse. Take everything he says with handful of salt. He sounds quite volatile so I wouldn't try to get access to the land right now. You should be able to get a valuation for probate without. If it's safe to do so take photos of its current state. Once it's in your & sister's name you can send legal notices, threaten bailiffs etc. Sounds like he's devalued it. Not sure if he or Bob would be liable to compensate you but ask surveyor what it would have been worth in original condition.

Tasks to do now:
Death certificate
Land registry doc
Letters of administration
Contact bank and HMRC to see if they can share info from their records
Contact surveyor/agent for land valuation
Property alert
Add your details to land register
Report tree felling
Contact the council planning department

Once your name is registered:
Contact the railway about their access needs
Contact estate agents about plans for selling
Get a solicitor so that you can deal with Bob who is legal co-owner

I'd really stay away from him for now. Tell the surveyors you need remote valuation. Get the other stuff going, especially telling the council about what he's done to the land. They might evict him for you!

Another thing to look at is whether he or Bob have made any planning applications: Search the register of planning decisions - GOV.UK

He needs planning permission for storage, it would be a change of use from woodland to Class B8. I have exactly the same situation on my land.

You'll need to have a word with the planning dept at the local authority, they'll be very Interested in this potentially. You won't be implicated on anything he's done without the appropriate permissions so don't worry x

I had a query with the land register recently - when I explained that I suspected attempted fraud, they were extremely helpful. Try calling them.

If your df didn't leave a will then I think you can apply to be the administrator.

A probate solicitor may give you a half an hour appt for a reasonable price .
I believe you can register a caution on the Land reg while probate/administration is happening.

Can you get LR to change the register by sending a death certificate for your Dad and a copy of the will, or a letter to say you are the beneficiary? I would try talking to LR I haven't myself but have heard they are very helpful and should be able to tell you exactly what you need to get the ownership (part owned by your Dad) changed to the beneficiaries name. I didn't think probate was necessary for estates less than a certain amount or are you thinking the land is really valuable? You should be able to get an approximate valuation from an estate agent if necessary to decide if you need probate.

Well, I'll be darned!!!!!!!

He applied for planning permission February this year and it was approved in March.
Containers, solar panels. And wind turbine thing and a portaloo.

F**k me. Unbelievable. Oh god.

One more thing - try to get a high valuation for probate. You can contact more than one surveyor. You will need to pay CGT on any gain after you sell so higher starting point is good.

As the owner!

I don't think it's the value that makes it necessary, it's the fact dad Co.Owned as tennants in common.

Cheeky barsteward ..won't affect ownership of the land though, you may need to engage a solicitor to commence eviction proceedings.

With planning it will have increased the value of the land as well which is favourable to you.

No, the form says that if you don;t have the info you can estimate it.

The solicitor told us that probate is always needed is someone owns a property in their sole name or as a tenant in common.

Just a thought - it's possible that he is the legal owner of Bob's share but the land registry is late on updating. There have been long delays recently. So you might have to deal with him as co-owner. In which case definitely wait until you have everything in your name before contacting him.

Speak to the council. He may have lied on the forms and not told them about the tree felling.

The land value has increased but OP will need to give a value of the land when her father died. Hopefully surveyor could do both.

Bob definitely is happy to pass his share to Bill. He even told train folk, just deal with Bill. I won't be able to sell land, only to Bill. Problem was Bill offered pennies, so we said no and tried to get him off land.

Then life just takes over.

I fear now, having spoken to train folk, when they asked if I had any evidence of ownership, probate etc, I said we were getting it. He told me he would call Bill and I asked him to give my number to Bill. Now I see Bill is ignoring the fact we exist. I've had no call. If anything, I have made Bill even certain to act without delay when he can.

Was the contract agreement that Bob could sell to whoever but your father could only sell to his co-owner? Or is it that you think it will be impossible to find a buyer for your share with Bill being an arsehole?

Talk to the council. You might be able to play hardball about how he can use the site until he gives you a much better offer.

You need to get moving. People have told you what to do.

If Bill won't offer a reasonable price for your share of the land, you may be able to force a sale to someone else. Even the threat of that may be enough to get Bill to agree to a reasonable price.

At this stage I would assume that Bill own's Bob's share but they haven't bothered updating the Land Registry. If that is the case, it might be worth pointing out to Bob that the transfer to Bill isn't legally complete until the Land Registry has been updated.

I fear now, having spoken to train folk, when they asked if I had any evidence of ownership, probate etc, I said we were getting it

In the interim send the train people a copy of the land registry and a copy of your father's death certificate with a letter explaining that as your father died intestate you and your sister are the sole heirs and you are currently awaiting probate.

Register a Unilateral Notice!

Bob was always silent. For the last 30 odd years, Bob hasn't been seen nor heard. Dad was always sole key holder. It was only until his death that Bob came on the scene.

Sent a letter shortly after dad's death offering us first refusal sort of speak. We agreed to pay him and then next thing I know, Bill is on the land.

When I approach sibling, saying we said we'd pay him, they admitted didn't converse with him. They were ill after dad's death. Sad situation. But secretly ill, if that makes sense. And his affairs were all over the joint, not handled properly and here we are.

I've never even seen the letter.

How would that help me? Doesn't that just help Bill?