Land dispute

[zarah21]

Desperately need advice!

My dad died 9 years ago with no will. He had nothing but a piece of land co shared (as tenants in common), with another chap, let's say Bob. Bob didn't use the land anymore. Only my dad had keys. When my dad passed, Bob sold his half to Bill, via a "gentlemen handshake" and Bill quickly broke the locks, put up new fencing, felled the trees, tarmaced it etc.

My sibling never applied for probate, saying dad had no assets, also never changed land registry. Still in dad's name.

I don't know where to start....

Do we apply for probate to amend registry?.. Or could I still lose the land regardless, given Bill can now apply for Adverse possession? Would a land registry change to our names strengthen any counter claim?

Bill tried to give us £3k for the land. We declined, it's worth way more. We asked Bill to pay rent, he declined, he was already on the land, so why would he? He said we could try get him off land but the said he would charge us for the felled trees, 6k he said! We felt backed into a corner and have been sitting ducks ever since.

We are at 9 years now, and very worried we may lose the only thing dad had. We just never knew how to keep it without spending lots of money to get Bill off the land.

This is the most stressful situation. And it's. Going on for years now. Don't get me wrong, day to day living is normal, but every so often, I feel crippling anxiety by the weight of it all.

What can I do? Please help.

Oh, I'm moving.

Got the land docs again, as of today to ensure it's the same.
Registered interest in land online, for updates.
Applying for death cert tonight.
IHT205 happening right now.

I'm just so worried. It's estimates, but I could be penalised. Worried about the things I just don't know. If he was in debt etc, and I owe tax or debtors. Etc.
I don't know enough to feel secure. I may be handed a bill, I can't pay.

It doesn't sound like there's anything in writing that says you can't sell to someone else. Which means you might be able to force a sale if Bill won't give you market price. When it reaches that stage get a lawyer.

What was the land bought for? Did your dad get any use out of it?

Don't stress too much about IHT. If there were any debts they'd have chased but maybe call HMRC to see if a tax return was needed. If he was on state pension probably not. Did the railway pay for access? If yes, where did that money go to?

Sounds like you urgently need to contact the council re planning. Let them know that Bill doesn't own the land, you do and provide appropriate documents.
Get some legal advice, as Bob/Bill situation sounds dodgy.
May also need to send a solicitor's letter to Bill re the land, access etc

It registers your interest in the land. It’s a quick way of getting something cheaply and quickly lodged against the land whilst you deal with probate etc… Land Registry will serve a notice on OLD OWNER. Do Land Registry have an up to date address for him? If not, even better (for you). NEW OWNER is a nobody to the Land Registry).

I’m not even convinced that NEW OWNER interest in the property could even be registered as he’d knowingly be a joint proprietor with your late father!

Whenever I hear ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ that to me is something that is likely ‘off the record’. Involves cash. To register his interest documents would be submitted to HMRC!

If anyone contacts you ie NEW/OLD OWNER you just say your Solicitor advised you to do this whilst you sort out Probate etc at which point the notice will be removed.

If Bill makes a claim on the land all owners as per the registry are contacted.
If those owners ie your dad don’t reply then if the required time has passed he gets the land.
However
If you tell landregistry or / and change it as per your inheritance rights then you will be the ones getting that letter and you can object. They will then refuse adverse procession.

In the first instance I would put in writing to Bill that you have inherited your share of your fathers land and have no intention of giving that up

Ps A handshake, gentleman’s agreement is meaningless.

Ps. OP

Id put an alert on Landregistry online for that title deed
If anyone tries to change anything your alert will be flagged up and you will be contacted via email

Planners won’t do anything.
I could get planning for flats on your land. Planners would approve it but it obviously doesn’t mean I can build. I would need your permission for that.

If he's running a business on the land it needs to be assessed for business rates, I'd let the local authority usiness rates dept know about that and they will refer it to the Valuation Office Agency for assessment. It won't affect you in any way but he then maybe aware you aren't taking this lightly and will be pursuing everything in your power.

"You also need to state in what way you have an interest in the property. You could say something like:
"The registered proprietor, [zarah21's dad] died intestate in 2015. I am his daughter and his ownership of the property has passed to myself and my sibling X""

Can i just check in the wordage please for the ADV2?

Do I mention that in the process of applying for administration too? Is anything else relevant? Should I mention any of the other details, like Bob or Bill?

Thanks in advance.

Gah this ADV2 form is postal only, and it's all black. Can't make this up lol.
The online form is for the business portal only. Also struggling to understand the fees, but I will call the registry tomorrow and try and get a printable form.

Agree with this. Bob seems to have absolutely no proof the land is even his ?

On the railway company's eyes, he is an "occupier" and when they have written to Bob, Bob merely says speak to Bill.
The fact he is on it, adapted it, added fencing, and it's treating it as his own is enough. Sadly.

Container holds sons equipment, it's a small business, so I think no business rates? Not sure how it works if it's for son and not Bill's business.
Bill a company director of something else, might also be using it, who knows. Eurghhh

What a tricky situation OP. It looks like you are getting good information here.

"Do I mention that in the process of applying for administration too?"

You can do if you wish, but you just need to show what your interest in the property is.

"Should I mention any of the other details, like Bob or Bill?"

No, that would likely just confuse things. Just keep it simple. [zarah21's dad] has died and his ownership of the property has passed to myself and my sister X

I've been up all night thinking he may already have applied and I'm. None the wiser. Apparently the property alert doesn't cover adverse possession.

As much As we all know he gained access in 2015, he is scewing figures. From the planning permission form, I can see he used the date 2013.

Im sick. Fed up. other guy was right, we're screwed.

Don't give up. If he does try to claim adverse possession, he will have to provide proof that he has occupied the land without the owner's permission for the period in question. He may claim that he has occupied the land since 2013, but he can't prove it as he hasn't. In the unlikely event that he is granted adverse possession based on false evidence, you will be able to get that unwound by showing that his evidence was false.

You aren't screwed but you do need to fight.

Get proper legal advice @zarah21 rather than from the internet. Anyone can apply for planning permission anywhere. They don't need to own the property in question. Write a timeline of everything and go and talk to solicitor.

Oh and he's the occupier because he's there. It doesn't really mean much. Honestly he needs a solicitor's letter telling him to move his container off your land. I think he's possibly trying to adversely possess the land and has lied about his agreement with Bob. As soon as you assert your rights, his attempt at adverse possession is scuppered. He can claim he was there earlier, but can he prove it? He's running rings around you, but he's clearly a chancer and probably a liar.

If there’s one thing you should do today - call the Land Registry and try and speak to a case worker. (They’re closed tomorrow for calls).

You can find out if there is any ‘pending applications’ but might have to fill in a form etc. Costs for things like this are cheap, like less than £10.

I have an adverse possession claim
going through the Land Registry right now and mine is straightforward. Even this has entered its second year.

@zarah21 definitely contact Land Registry and get your email as a contact on the Register. That way you will be notified if anyone applies for Adverse Possession.

update
Bill just called me.
Claims my sibling was happy to wait 10 years and let him take land for a cash sum. (after the title change) and he gave her cash in hand, token gesture.

I'm soooo fkin fed up, it's unbelievable.
Sibling claims, in earlier calls, that they never took any money from him.

I've told him outright, without a prior deal, I can't see them allowing the 10 years to pass. I mean, sibling can't be that stupid.
When I emailed sibling, a week ago, it was like this 10 year timescale was news to her.

I've said, I've spent days on paperwork etc, and I'm ready to object to any claim so hoping I've put willie's up him. Unless, I've just effed it more for myself.

@zarah21 I read this whole thread yesterday, or at least all of your posts. This is horrible, shocking. I know nothing about the law but I just kept thinking - go to the police!

Have you considered that? This toerag is defrauding you? Is it worth a try?
I really hope you get it sorted out.