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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Letting ex take kids to africa

307 replies

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:17

So my ex is from a west African country, the kids are 8and 5. I’ve agreed for him to take the kids away for 3 weeks max after a long debate. I’ve never been there and they haven’t either so it would be an opportunity to meet their cousins, grandma and practice their language. I was already really anxious as he can be quite selfish and I wouldn't even know where they are exactly as people don’t have exact addresses there. I have phone numbers for his family but that’s about it. I spoke to them before but there is a language barrier.
he initially said i can come as well but when I said i’d join for a week only, he said it’s too much money to pay for me just to come for a week. Also declined when I said he could apply for a visa for me just in case as it’s again waste of money. I can’t afford to go and don’t really want to.
Anyway he booked them tickets for a month even though I said it’s 3 weeks max! He said it’s because the tickets were cheaper that away and he is their dad. So they will now miss 2,5 weeks school. I’m fuming. He has loads of money and hasn’t even had them for a night since moving out over a year ago. How can I trust him when he has no regard for what we agreed. I don’t want to stop them from going and don’t have money for solicitors but is there anything I can do to minimise any risk? Should I even be letting them go?
they want to go, but is it worth my anxiety?
should by teaching my son the phone numbers for British embassy by heart in case something happens 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
aaarghhhhh

OP posts:
Lamelie · 28/02/2023 12:19

You can’t afford not to consult a solicitor.
The stakes are very high.
Flowers

GenuineKlatchianPottery · 28/02/2023 12:20

Nope! Absolutely not! No chance!
Is the country he’s planning on visiting a signatory of The Hague Convention?

maddy68 · 28/02/2023 12:21

Are you sure he will return them ?

purplecorkheart · 28/02/2023 12:21

There isn't a hope in hell I would be letting them go. You need to speak to a Solicitor who specialises in subject.

Badger1970 · 28/02/2023 12:22

Aren't they going to struggle if he's not even had them overnight for a year?

Clymene · 28/02/2023 12:22

I'm guessing if it's a west African country, it's not a signatory to The Hague Convention as very few are.

www.hcch.net/en/states/hcch-members

There's not a chance in hell anyone would be taking my kids to a country where there is any likelihood they'll never come back. And the way he's behaving, I'd say that's a very strong possibility.

I would cut up their passports.

BitOutOfPractice · 28/02/2023 12:22

There is no way on this earth that I would allow this to happen.

rubyslippers · 28/02/2023 12:22

10000% wouldn’t let this happen
get legal advice asap
hide their passports

dementedpixie · 28/02/2023 12:23

There's no way they'd be going if he hasn't even had them overnight once

MaoamAddict · 28/02/2023 12:23

Don't allow this - if he keeps them there you have no legal recourse to get them back!

Plenanna · 28/02/2023 12:24

I wouldn’t allow them to go. It’s his home country, it’s highly possible he could keep them there and not return them. He also cannot take them out of school and you need to tell the school before you get fined.

massivesalads · 28/02/2023 12:24

Hell no.

ClaraThePigeon · 28/02/2023 12:24

Do not let them go. They may never return. I wouldn't even consider it for a minute.

BreviloquentBastard · 28/02/2023 12:26

Absolutely not, especially as he's not even had them overnight for a year.

I got anxious and stressy about my husband taking our daughter to Norway for two weeks and we're happily married, absolutely no way on god's earth would I be letting an ex who has little to do with his children ship them off to a country where it would be very easy for him to just... Not bring them back.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:26

All great points!! So he has them 3 days a week after school and puts them to bed here and then does half of school runs. He has them in his shared flat after school, takes them to activities and them brings them here and puts them to bed.
so a solicitor will advise me that I can take prohibited steps order if I have concerns but I don’t have major concerns, I just want to minimise any risks.
i would have felt better if he bloody listened when I said 3 weeks max, he is just so bloody selfish!!
also not a Hague convention country no
the passports will be coming to my house with visas including his so I could just say not giving them to you unless you change the flights but he can still change them after if he wants to

OP posts:
smokeyrabbit · 28/02/2023 12:27

Are they girls?

Allmarbleslost · 28/02/2023 12:27

Hell no. Speak to a solicitor op.

RedPandaFluff · 28/02/2023 12:28

Oh my goodness OP there's no way I would allow this if I were in your position. As PPs have said, what if he keeps them there? It's not worth the risk. I would never normally deny children an opportunity to spend time with their father, understand their background, culture, language, family etc. but this would terrify me. I agree with those saying hide their passports and don't let them go. It sounds like they CAN spend time with their father in the UK so they can visit his country when they are grown and independent, and can choose to.

ClaraThePigeon · 28/02/2023 12:29

I just want to minimise any risks.

The only way that you can minimise the risks is by doing everything possible to prevent them from going. The risk of them not returning is very real.

Sharpbridge · 28/02/2023 12:33

He does not have any legal right to take them overseas without your permission, and I would refuse to give it.

(I’ve travelled quite a bit around Africa in 8 different countries and I always had an address even if it was just a campsite.)

If he isn’t interested enough in the children to look after them over night, why does he suddenly want to take them to Africa for a month? My worry would be that its for things like female genital mutilation and forced marriage, which in some cultures in Africa the dad genuinely believes these are the right thing to do. Every year British children are taken out of Britain ‘on holiday’ to find that these things happen to them.

If they are at risk of being taken without your consent, you can ask the government to put a stop on their passports so they can’t be taken out of the country.

It’s awkward that you have already agreed to a trip. However, you did not agree to a term time trip. You might wish to point out that taking the children away during term time is a criminal offence in Britain, both for him AND for you, he’s basically forcing you to commit a criminal offence for which you could both be fined quite a lot of money.

Reclaim your authority. Tell him that this is not happening because it’s a crime and that he must cancel the flights. Tell him thet you will report him to the police. He will be furious, obviously. A compromise might be that the children only go during school holidays and that he pays for you to go too and you stay with them all the time.

But I would not allow it: even a tiny risk that they never come back is far too high. Children disappear into slave trafficking every day in Africa. How much do you trust him to protect them from that, for a month? I don’t trust anyone that much.

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 12:33

What guarantee have you got that he will bring them back.

No way would I be letting them go.

So what if they don’t see their grandma.

He has already reneged on them going for 3 weeks and extended it to a month

What ever made you think it was a good idea in the first place.

He has loads of money but can’t afford your visa
He has loads of money but went for the months return despite saying 3 weeks because it was cheaper

He has loads of money but couldn’t afford your plane ticket for a weeks stay. Despite asking you to come

Newsflash

He either doesn’t have loads of money in which case what reason does he have to come back or he has loads of money and is going to return without the children.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:34

So I’d say there is 5% chance that he would not bring them back. He has a life here and he will be coming back and also loves his kids and knows they have a good life here and he wouldn’t do it to them. But he can be quite selfish!
also my son is incredibly intelligent and I do believe he would get himself out of any situation, he speaks the language
also my ex’s sister is sensible
does it change the responses?

OP posts:
ehb102 · 28/02/2023 12:35

The worst safeguarding failure I ever came across was when a girl of five was taken out of school in term time and taken to a country in West Africa and had Female Genital Mutilation. Grandmother's and Aunties did it. Not the parents. But once it was done it was done. That child couldn't even wee properly without pain.

Do not allow your children to go abroad without you. Regardless of sex, being away from a parent is really hard. I might allow it if the parent and I were in a trusted relationship, but not in a co-parenting situation with someone that selfish.

EyesOnThePies · 28/02/2023 12:36

The least of your worries maybe, but you will get fined, for each child’s absence from school (if they are in state schools).

In our Borough they could also lose their school places altogether after more than 10 school days unauthorised absence.

My kids would have missed me dreadfully to have been away for that long, at that age 😟

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 12:37

He will be getting other passports for them in case you withhold. Those will be going to his house.

Why do you think his visa is coming to your house. Huge red flag

Also for someone who has “loads of money” wtf is he doing living in a shared house.

Can you not see he has no reason or stake in this country to return.

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