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Original poster

Letting ex take kids to africa

307 replies

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:17

So my ex is from a west African country, the kids are 8and 5. I’ve agreed for him to take the kids away for 3 weeks max after a long debate. I’ve never been there and they haven’t either so it would be an opportunity to meet their cousins, grandma and practice their language. I was already really anxious as he can be quite selfish and I wouldn't even know where they are exactly as people don’t have exact addresses there. I have phone numbers for his family but that’s about it. I spoke to them before but there is a language barrier.
he initially said i can come as well but when I said i’d join for a week only, he said it’s too much money to pay for me just to come for a week. Also declined when I said he could apply for a visa for me just in case as it’s again waste of money. I can’t afford to go and don’t really want to.
Anyway he booked them tickets for a month even though I said it’s 3 weeks max! He said it’s because the tickets were cheaper that away and he is their dad. So they will now miss 2,5 weeks school. I’m fuming. He has loads of money and hasn’t even had them for a night since moving out over a year ago. How can I trust him when he has no regard for what we agreed. I don’t want to stop them from going and don’t have money for solicitors but is there anything I can do to minimise any risk? Should I even be letting them go?
they want to go, but is it worth my anxiety?
should by teaching my son the phone numbers for British embassy by heart in case something happens 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
aaarghhhhh

OP posts:
Pieceofpurplesky · 28/02/2023 14:46

Has the OP said which country yet?

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:46

SavBlancTonight · 28/02/2023 14:36

Okay, from everything you've said, I totally understand why you're not that concerned re kidnapping, FGM etc. Africa is a big place so it's not like these are all common problems everywhere.

Moving on - I think this attitude of taking them out of school and doing 4 weeks is a bit annoying but most likely culturally normal. Re flights, I can believe it - we travel to South Africa and as a rule, you have to go for a very short or very long time otherwise flights land up being insanely expensive. I don't understand why. Time of year and different holiday schedules probably has an impact.

I think that 4 weeks away from you when they're used to being with you all the time is a bit much, especially for the 5 year old. But I suspect he wants to show them his country and his relatives so there will be a million people looking out for them and hanging out etc, especially useful as they already speak the language. If you could go out, i would. I think if he's paying for your trip, you should ask him to tell you how much he's willing to pay and you then just sort it yourself and if it lands up being just a week, then so be it - he doesn't get to complain about that.

This is really useful thank you

OP posts:
NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

Comedycook · 28/02/2023 14:50

also my son is incredibly intelligent and I do believe he would get himself out of any situation

Don't talk daft

Pearlygates · 28/02/2023 14:50

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:46

This is really useful thank you

Show quote history

Sensible advice @SavBlancTonight

Everyone's being so dramatic on this thread 😂

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:50

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

Nope no indication that he would steal the kids, he wants them to have a life here, we are paying hundreds of pounds every month for different activities so they can have a good life here
its cameroon
kids are british and so is he in terms of nationality
now I’ve given too many personal details which is annoying

OP posts:
watermelonandlime · 28/02/2023 14:51

Pearlygates · 28/02/2023 14:50

Sensible advice @SavBlancTonight

Everyone's being so dramatic on this thread 😂

Show quote history

To be fair, the OP has given an estimated 1 in 20 chance of her children not returning and is wondering whether her son should memorise the phone number for the British embassy...

TallulahBetty · 28/02/2023 14:52

NO WAY.

A girl at DD's school was taken to her dad's country, and didn't return for over a year.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:53

watermelonandlime · 28/02/2023 14:51

To be fair, the OP has given an estimated 1 in 20 chance of her children not returning and is wondering whether her son should memorise the phone number for the British embassy...

Show quote history

I did half jokingly but also because I’m a worrier and do teach my kids all sort of things

OP posts:
TallulahBetty · 28/02/2023 14:53

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

With respect, perhaps the people responding have actual real-life experiences of this happening in certain west African countries? I know I have.

motherofkevinnotperry · 28/02/2023 14:53

No no no! Don't allow this! Once they're there you have no rights over your children and as the father him and his family have everything. It's common place in west and central Africa for children of couples to be kept by the fathers family.

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:54

TallulahBetty · 28/02/2023 14:53

With respect, perhaps the people responding have actual real-life experiences of this happening in certain west African countries? I know I have.

Show quote history

And maybe I do as well?

PillBoxes · 28/02/2023 14:54

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

Only one parent taking minor children to ANY non Hague Convention country is a huge risk.

It is not specifically an Africa issue at all.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 14:55

The response would be the exact same for any country not signatory to the the Hague convention - especially in a situation where the parent wishing to take the children did not have frequent overnight contact and especially where there is money (cash savings).
This is not because it is Africa and I would totally caution any woman who is considering moving to Australia, the US or anywhere else with her children (or have children there) that they cannot leave with their children if it does not work out - unless there is consent of the other parent (the Hague convention).

ClaraThePigeon · 28/02/2023 14:56

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

Australia and the U.S are part of the Hague Convention. Cameroon is not. But even then from what the OP has described of her ex, I'd be extremely cautious and reluctant to allow them to go, Hague Convention or not but the HC does make a big difference to the odds of having a child returned to you, should the worst happen.

SoCrossAboutThis · 28/02/2023 14:56

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:34

So I’d say there is 5% chance that he would not bring them back. He has a life here and he will be coming back and also loves his kids and knows they have a good life here and he wouldn’t do it to them. But he can be quite selfish!
also my son is incredibly intelligent and I do believe he would get himself out of any situation, he speaks the language
also my ex’s sister is sensible
does it change the responses?

No , not at all. A 5% risk is way too high. Maybe he would come back and leave them there with a distant relative? Are either of them girls? Fgm also a possibility.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 14:58

No a solicitor will not stop a man from taking HIS children on holidays, the solicitor will apply to court for an order to prevent the removal of the child from the county while the abduction risk is fully assessed.
The holiday may need to be a non international one.

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 15:00

PillBoxes · 28/02/2023 14:54

Only one parent taking minor children to ANY non Hague Convention country is a huge risk.

It is not specifically an Africa issue at all.

Show quote history

To be honest I can understand that but I wouldn't go in a frenzy about it based on the facts OP has given.

Ex invited her. She doesn't want to go.

I don't think someone planning a quick run off with the kids would be suggesting the other parent comes along.

If I we're in OP's shoes, I'd take on the invitation and come along just to put my mind at ease. I can understand the anxiety around being away from your children for 3 weeks etc...

XelaM · 28/02/2023 15:08

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

Absolutely my response would be the same! My ex is from Romania and no, I wouldn't allow him yo take her there on his own.

And USA is notorious for being very difficult to get children back abroad.

Cantdoitwontdoit · 28/02/2023 15:09

🙄

You’d already and sup your mind before making the thread, your replies are clear in that regard. You just wanted reassurance, I’m which case you should have just asked for that and not bothered asking opinions.

Mine is the same as many.

Doesn’t matter that he is black (many of us on mumsnet are too).

It DOES matter that it is going to be a country that doesn’t follow the Hague convention. If you aren’t particularly bothered about them coming back then send them off with a smile.

Most mothers wouldn’t let their dc go to any country without them that they could never legally attempt to get them back from if they were kidnapped.

You do you.

XelaM · 28/02/2023 15:09

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 15:00

To be honest I can understand that but I wouldn't go in a frenzy about it based on the facts OP has given.

Ex invited her. She doesn't want to go.

I don't think someone planning a quick run off with the kids would be suggesting the other parent comes along.

If I we're in OP's shoes, I'd take on the invitation and come along just to put my mind at ease. I can understand the anxiety around being away from your children for 3 weeks etc...

Show quote history

It's 4 weeks, not 3 and there is nothing the OP could do to prevent him from taking the kids even if she's physically present

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 15:11

ClaraThePigeon · 28/02/2023 14:56

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

Australia and the U.S are part of the Hague Convention. Cameroon is not. But even then from what the OP has described of her ex, I'd be extremely cautious and reluctant to allow them to go, Hague Convention or not but the HC does make a big difference to the odds of having a child returned to you, should the worst happen.

After reading all of OP's responses again, I don't see any concern to be honest. Maybe browse through them again?

TheShellBeach · 28/02/2023 15:11

Pieceofpurplesky · 28/02/2023 14:46

Has the OP said which country yet?

Tanzania

XelaM · 28/02/2023 15:12

TheShellBeach · 28/02/2023 15:11

Tanzania

Show quote history

It's Cameroon I think she said?

HeresANewNameForToday · 28/02/2023 15:13

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

I'd agree that some of the responses here are running a fine line between being wise and being racist...

But the Hague Convention is the big difference between taking the kids to Cameroon and taking them to Australia; there would be a legal mechanism to get them back. Without that, there isn't one.

And yes, a solicitor can stop a man from taking his kids on holiday; and can also stop a woman from taking her kids on holiday; if the other parent has concerns.

There is a risk here that wouldn't exist if he was taking them home to Australia; and it'd be naive not to acknowledge it, given that if it all went wrong, it'd be too late for OP to do anything about it. But how big that risk is cannot be determined here; by people who don't know the man or his situation.