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Original poster

Letting ex take kids to africa

307 replies

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:17

So my ex is from a west African country, the kids are 8and 5. I’ve agreed for him to take the kids away for 3 weeks max after a long debate. I’ve never been there and they haven’t either so it would be an opportunity to meet their cousins, grandma and practice their language. I was already really anxious as he can be quite selfish and I wouldn't even know where they are exactly as people don’t have exact addresses there. I have phone numbers for his family but that’s about it. I spoke to them before but there is a language barrier.
he initially said i can come as well but when I said i’d join for a week only, he said it’s too much money to pay for me just to come for a week. Also declined when I said he could apply for a visa for me just in case as it’s again waste of money. I can’t afford to go and don’t really want to.
Anyway he booked them tickets for a month even though I said it’s 3 weeks max! He said it’s because the tickets were cheaper that away and he is their dad. So they will now miss 2,5 weeks school. I’m fuming. He has loads of money and hasn’t even had them for a night since moving out over a year ago. How can I trust him when he has no regard for what we agreed. I don’t want to stop them from going and don’t have money for solicitors but is there anything I can do to minimise any risk? Should I even be letting them go?
they want to go, but is it worth my anxiety?
should by teaching my son the phone numbers for British embassy by heart in case something happens 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
aaarghhhhh

OP posts:
Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:04

ittakes2 · 28/02/2023 13:56

you posted you had your concerns and most of us agreed you are right to - and now you are trying to defend him as not a bad guy? I think your spidery sense are tingling this might be a bad idea but you want to spend some time with your new boyfriend so you were hoping the internet would reassure you it was an OK decision.

There is that probably. But it’s not all black or white

OP posts:
itwasntmetho · 28/02/2023 14:05

You ask people if you should be teaching your Son the number for The British Embassy and then get annoyed and call racism when Dawn Daley pops into their minds.

People can only go on the impression that you give and they want to save you pain.

My Cousin was taken to the Middle East for a holiday as a child, by her Father, she didn't see her Mother again until she was an adult, but her life is there now so she doesn't see her often.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:06

clarrylove · 28/02/2023 14:00

So he has sought asylum in the UK but it is perfectly safe for him to return to his home country for 4 weeks on holiday?

hmmm that was 15 years ago. His claim was refused and we got married which sorted his status out. People do it all the time. It doesn’t make them bad people that they want to make a better life for themselves. Although you’re welcome to your opinion x

OP posts:
Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:06

itwasntmetho · 28/02/2023 14:05

You ask people if you should be teaching your Son the number for The British Embassy and then get annoyed and call racism when Dawn Daley pops into their minds.

People can only go on the impression that you give and they want to save you pain.

My Cousin was taken to the Middle East for a holiday as a child, by her Father, she didn't see her Mother again until she was an adult, but her life is there now so she doesn't see her often.

Gosh that is awful and very worrying

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 28/02/2023 14:07

Could you go for the last two weeks so you're 'bringing them home' ? Then they've had a nice 2 weeks with dad and they get to see you ?

ThinkingOfAWittyUsername · 28/02/2023 14:08

Hell no, especially if one of the children is a girl.

FrostyBits · 28/02/2023 14:09

I know a number of people are suggesting there is racism in some of the responses. Personally I'm assessing on risk.

If the ex was from a country who had signed The Hague Convention, he had his kids overnight every weekend and 2 nights during the week, grandparents visted regularly, you knew his sister and other family well as had stayed with them in their country in their homes every summer while you were together and it was during school holidays then that is totally different.

The circumstances that the OP has given are the entire polar opposite. Whilst it feels unsavoury to highlight things that can happen in a country you are weighing up all the factors and looking at the overall picture that is built up.

Your kids are very young and not used to overnights with your ex, and for that reason alone I wouldn't be happy to let them go for that length of time. When you factor in all of the other points it feels like a no brainer.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:09

notapizzaeater · 28/02/2023 14:07

Could you go for the last two weeks so you're 'bringing them home' ? Then they've had a nice 2 weeks with dad and they get to see you ?

I think I’ll have to that really won’t I. Which means I’m not getting any break but I don’t feel I have a choice

OP posts:
TooManyPlatesInMotion · 28/02/2023 14:09

No. Hell would freeze over before I agreed to this.

PillBoxes · 28/02/2023 14:09

I'd be shitting myself even if they were going to a Hague Convention country TBH.

If he is that wealthy why not arrange for some relatives to visit UK instead, or would they not qualify for a visa? If not why?

I don't think I'd even be comfortable going with them. Things can happen out of your sight and you have Zero recourse in a non Hague country.

Overall, to me it is just too much of a risk and I wouldn't chance it for love nor money.

Think it through properly please. Kids can go when they are 18.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:11

Yes I doubt that his relatives would qualify for a visa. No chance

OP posts:
Breadhead1 · 28/02/2023 14:11

You started the thread so there's obviously an element of doubt that he won't bring them back 🙄

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:11

They are too poor and British gov would have concerns they would want to stay for sure

OP posts:
Daffodilsandtuplips · 28/02/2023 14:11

No, not a cat in Hells chance would I let them go. For all of the reasons others have said. They are too young to be away from you for so long, he’s already changed the length of stay, he hasn’t given you an address of where they’ll be staying. Sounds as dodgy as fuck.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:13

He hasn’t given me an exact address because there isn’t one. I know it’s hard to believe but it’s true www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/oped/streets-with-no-names-in-african-cities-2564934

OP posts:
Eatentoomanyroses · 28/02/2023 14:14

You are bloody insane to let them go. Read up on Hague mothers. Their stories are harrowing.
www.hague-mothers.org.uk/legal-overview/
you can also get advice here www.reunite.org

Eatentoomanyroses · 28/02/2023 14:15

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:09

I think I’ll have to that really won’t I. Which means I’m not getting any break but I don’t feel I have a choice

Show quote history

You’ll definitely get a ‘break’ when you never see them again which is what will happen if you allow this.

TheShellBeach · 28/02/2023 14:19

Breadhead1 · 28/02/2023 14:11

You started the thread so there's obviously an element of doubt that he won't bring them back 🙄

Yes. She's even said that there is a 5% chance he won't bring the children back.
That is 5% too high a risk for me.

purpleboy · 28/02/2023 14:19

Well the pp was suggesting you go for the last 2 weeks, so actually you would get the first 2 weeks as a break, seeing as they are going for a month.
But I suspect this is more about you wanting to spend time with your new bf, you know the potential risks to your children, it's exactly why your posting here, but are willing to overlook them so you can have time with your bf and you want posters here to tell you that's ok.

PillBoxes · 28/02/2023 14:23

You could bring your new bf with you for two weeks. He'll protect them from abduction and I'm sure and you'll all have a wonderful holiday.

Seriously, if in doubt, leave it out. It is your decision and you and only you will face the consequences if anything happens.

Nearlyalldone · 28/02/2023 14:24

OP- please listen to the other posters. Do not let your children go. At least consider talking to someone at Reunite for advice if you’re not convinced: www.reunite.org/ . They are a UK-based organisation that offers free advice on international child abduction matters. I’ve previously spoken to them about a similar matter and their advice was invaluable.

Please listen OP.

Eatentoomanyroses · 28/02/2023 14:25

The op being there may not make a huge difference to whether she can bring them home. There’s lots of cases of women trapped in countries abroad bevayse they can’t bring their children home. My mother was trapped in a European country for 12 months when my father took me.

XelaM · 28/02/2023 14:28

Eatentoomanyroses · 28/02/2023 14:25

The op being there may not make a huge difference to whether she can bring them home. There’s lots of cases of women trapped in countries abroad bevayse they can’t bring their children home. My mother was trapped in a European country for 12 months when my father took me.

Yep. There's nothing the OP will be able to do as he's the father and has parental responsibility. Plus, he has money and is a native of the country with family there. There is simply nothing the OP will be able to do if he decides not to return the kids.

SavBlancTonight · 28/02/2023 14:36

Okay, from everything you've said, I totally understand why you're not that concerned re kidnapping, FGM etc. Africa is a big place so it's not like these are all common problems everywhere.

Moving on - I think this attitude of taking them out of school and doing 4 weeks is a bit annoying but most likely culturally normal. Re flights, I can believe it - we travel to South Africa and as a rule, you have to go for a very short or very long time otherwise flights land up being insanely expensive. I don't understand why. Time of year and different holiday schedules probably has an impact.

I think that 4 weeks away from you when they're used to being with you all the time is a bit much, especially for the 5 year old. But I suspect he wants to show them his country and his relatives so there will be a million people looking out for them and hanging out etc, especially useful as they already speak the language. If you could go out, i would. I think if he's paying for your trip, you should ask him to tell you how much he's willing to pay and you then just sort it yourself and if it lands up being just a week, then so be it - he doesn't get to complain about that.

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 14:43

Hi, you have referenced Tanzania in one of your earlier post in regards to addresses/street names.
Tanzania is not a signatory to the de Hague declaration on child abduction.
If it is another country check before whether or not the country has ratified the de Hague convention.
You do need urgent legal advice, in fact I would suggest you need a court order preventing your ex to take the children out of the country and from getting them a passport.
Everything you are saying screams child risk of abduction and the suggestions of having children memorise the telephone number of the British embassy etc are naive to say the least.
You were married - so he has parental responsibility and in all likelyhood the children have dual nationality (or at least a right to dual nationality).
So the second they are in the country your ex husband is taking them to they are citizens of that country and subject to local legislation.
So in the (entirely possible) event that your ex husband decided to leave the children with his extended family or stay there with them the best possible outcome for you will be to have some sort of contact - realistically you will not see them until they are adults.

This is not informed by bias. It is the reality of too many women and unfortunately you would be neither the first nor the last.