So stressed - landlords are wanting us to pay for issues I don’t believe are our fault

[PinkLadiApples]

Hi, I really hope someone may be able to help me, will try to keep this readable.

We live in a flat above a restaurant, the entire building is owned by a lady who lives locally and she uses an estate agents to manage it. We moved in 3 months ago.

Last week, the people in the restaurant complained that suddenly every time we flushed the toilet, used the taps, the washing machine or the shower, water and toilet waste was coming through to them. We stopped immediately and called an emergency plumber out, who identified that the toilet pipes had become blocked and the reason was my partner was using flushable toilet wipes and they’d built up and caused this.

We were without access to our toilet, shower, washing machine and all taps for 5 days because various plumbers didn’t bother turning up, plus a builder and drain unblocker were needed to fix this. It was a huge massive job which was incredibly stressful and we had to use the restaurant downstairs toilet and sinks which was very kind of them.

That first night it happened, they had to close, understandably, and they’ve lost a lot of money from bookings. They’re a small independent family run restaurant so I realise this was a huge deal to them.

The narrative throughout these past few days was that it’s basically all our fault for using these wipes, the owner was hinting at this several times and said we’d hear from the estate agents soon. I should add, the area we live in is very very old and we’re actually in a listed building, she told us that pipes here extremely old and narrow and not like most places. However no one told us that when we moved here.

So today we’ve had an email saying the responsibility of all this is fully ours, and we’ll be invoiced soon for not only the plumbing and builder bills but for all lost income of the restaurant. We’ve checked our tenancy agreement and it just states we have to take reasonable precautions not to cause pipe blockages. Nothing about these particular pipes being extra narrow or old.

When we’ve said the toilet wipes packaging says it’s “Certified fine to flush” they’ve said everyone knows not to trust that, but I didn’t know!

If anyone knows where we stand legally please let me know, I’d be so grateful.

But you did cause the damage??

Insurance should cover both? If I recall correctly, you have to pay for the repair of the leak, but any damage caused your house insurance should pay for?

The business downstairs should also have insurance that they can claim on.

I would imagine that there is building insurance and that the restaurant either has their own insurance or should be able to claim on the landlord's insurance of the whole building.

Insurance should cover consequential loss of income but ultimately it was your household which caused the problem.

Well, you did cause the blockage by flushing the wipes down the toilet, so you did technically cause the damage.

How long did the restaurant have to close for?

The damage was caused by your partner.
Damage does not have to be intentional for it to be your responsibility.

You could try suing the wipes company for false advertising I suppose

I think on this occasion it is something that you should have researched.
But I hope their insurance covers the damage.

I'd tell them to take you to court over it.

Yes the damage was because of the wipes but the wipes said they're flushable. Why didn't they flush? Because of ancient plumbing.

If it was blocked by baby wipes or another item that wasn't "flushable" then yes, you'd likely have to take responsibility.

But there wouldn't be any reason for you to assume "flushable wipes" would fuck the plumbing.

I'm not a lawyer, just sticking in my twopence worth

@mydaughterisademon yes we did cause the damage but only in the same way that using very thick toilet paper could cause a blockage, which is something the plumber told us. He said even toilet cleaners can erode the pipes and never to use them.

@Notlostjustexploring we don’t have insurance here, we can’t afford it.

Thanks @Ringsender2 I will ask them about this.

What a nightmare for you OP.

Unfortunately you should NEVER flush those wipes, sanitary products or anything other than toilet paper.

As pp have said, your building should have insurance in place although if you caused the damage then it’s a grey area.

The restaurant may claim against their insurance but it is then likely that their insurance would pursue the party who caused the issue which in this case is the tenants of the flat. As you caused the blockages then they will pursue you. At that stage you will need to show you did take reasonable precautions not to cause blockages as per the terms of the tenancy agreement but I am afraid I agree that it is generally known that wipes etc shouldn't be flushed.

It is your fault though. Just like when we had a tenant who thought pouring fat directly down the drain would be fine. It wasn't and it was expensive to fix the damage.

The thing with the restaurant claiming on their insurance is that it will put they premiums up for next year.

Can you not ask them if you can split the bill so its easier to pay?

I don't understand why people buy these wipes - as they are not flushable. They are as bad as baby wipes.

Flushing wet wipes is an environmental nightmare.
I pity your landlord.

Do you have legal advice on your home insurance? I would give them a call.

And stop flushing wet wipes. None of the brands are flushable, even in a modern house with wider pipes. It's a scandal that companies still get away with pretending they are.

You could argue with them that if the plumbing wasn't shite then there wouldn't be an issue.

Probs should also be prepared to move, because if you resist then you're landlord might not be as amenable as they once were.

Interesting to read the replies, thanks so much. Yes I accept we caused the blockage, and don’t want to fall out with anyone because they’re all lovely people.

The restaurant closed for two nights, until it was made safe to operate in but the issue wasn’t fully fixed still, we just had to not use anything.

What a nightmare! I accept that someone has got to pay for all of this, so I guess if it comes to it we’ll have to. It’s just such a difficult one because the plumbing around here IS very old and narrow, something I only learned a few days ago. If we’d known this we could have been extra careful maybe. The plumber we saw told us that the plumbing and sewage system in the UK is not fit for purpose.

Your** landlord. Jaysus.

Your plumber is wrong - those wipes do not degrade like toilet paper does. Its nothing to do with toilet cleaner either.

I can imagine that you're feeling a bit sick at the cost of the bill, but are you expecting the landlady and restaurant to cover it when you flushed the wipes? I'm not sure that the size of the pipes really matters here. I guess you could argue that the restaurant should have insurance to cover things like this but morally, it is your fault.

You really need proper legal advice from a solicitor. If they were non-flushable wipes then you would definitely be at fault here, but as the wipes say 'certified flushable' it may be in a bit more of a grey area.

Pipes do erode for a variety of reasons, but the fact the wipes caused the blockage imo means your liable.

If there was a leak because of eroded pipes then landlord is liable.

Those wipes are technically flushable, in the sense that when you flush the loo they go away and dont float.
However unlike toilet paper, even thick stuff, they dont disintegrate in water so they frequently cause blockages in pipes, and at the sewage works.

This is widely known, there have even been adverts about it. Unfortunately your partner caused the blockage.
It's very unfortunate you dont have insurance. I know it seems an optional expense when things are tight but in reality you cant afford not to have it.

So the impression I’m getting is that we are legally liable here, but I’m going to talk to CAB and a solicitor if I can.

To the person that said they pity the landlord, please don’t, we are good tenants generally, we’ve adhered to the request not to use our washing machine after 6pm as it disturbs the restaurant even though it’s not in the contract, we pay everything on time and try not to bother anyone for minor problems even if they’re not our fault.

I never wanted to get these bloody wipes, at our last house my partner used the sink to clean himself after the toilet (sorry if TMI) because he feels disgusting if he doesn’t. The sink is the other side of the quite large bathroom here and he looked around for some wipes that were totally flushable. We’ve never put anything else except toilet paper down it.

We’ve rang Sainsburys who make the wipes, they maintain that they’re fully flushable and it must be the plumbing at fault.

@Shakirasma

Those wipes are technically flushable, in the sense that when you flush the loo they go away and dont float. However unlike toilet paper, even thick stuff, they dont disintegrate in water so they frequently cause blockages in pipes, and at the sewage works.

This is widely known, there have even been adverts about it. Unfortunately your partner caused the blockage.
It's very unfortunate you dont have insurance. I know it seems an optional expense when things are tight but in reality you cant afford not to have it.

Ah ok I understand. I’ve never seen those adverts about them. Feel like crying. I have severe health problems and we have no savings at all. We will have to offer to pay maybe £20 a month or something if it comes to it. I feel so sick. Thank you very much for the replies, much appreciated.