Potential grandparent requesting DNA test..

[user1499775533]

Hi, was wondering if anyone knows if a potential paternal grandparent can request DNA by starting the mediation process etc. Any advive would be appreciated.

I don't think courts should be making decisions at all regarding who does and does not see children (except in cases where the parents are unfit or the gp has raised the DC) - I don't see why they get more say than the actual parents.

@IWannaSeeHowItEnds So when parents can't agree, though both are "fit", there shouldn't be a mechanism to ask someone independent (like - gosh, a judge) to decide? Perhaps we should just let them both do what they want. Great idea.

Yea....because this would never happen in Spain.

www.pellicerheredia.com/en/family/rights-of-grandparents-over-their-grandchildren

I'm sure these things happen all over the world, and me choosing to go to Spain would be to escape her and not Spanish law, legally i could regardless of who has decided x,y and z for my children. That is worse case- at this point I'm saying i don't give permission for anyone to make an order on my child, the order that they made for my elder Daughter does not work because the grandparent and i haven't seen each other directly in 2 years, my daughter goes with her Dad. It was not necessary to make an order anyway because she wanted contact at her home, not a valid reason in my eyes. And in regards to my Daughter i have chosen not to put her in an awkward position for 2 hours especially after that phone call and my ex has made it clear he doesn't want to be responsible for taking anyone anywhere again and I'm not happy to hand her over, when she's older who knows but it's between me and my ex to sort out. At this age anything can happen and change and she could have to go back to hospital in the future so no orders for my baby. Shame the court can't put an order on her to leave me alone.

Those poor children. I'm not sure OP is of sound enough mind to put her children's needs first.

My mind is great thanks. I just know what i want for MY children and I'm intelligent enough to spot a troublesome person when i see one with bad intentions. Just so wierd how she made an order to see my Daughter at her home alone to start with. Unfortunately it is a very corrupt world we live in with so many strange people in it and her behaviour has made me suspicious, like any parent.

She didn’t make the order. The court did. And It’s not weird. You agreed to it. I understand you had your reasons, and you may regret it now, but don’t make out the system/law/courts are stacked against you because of an order you freely consented to and an application that the GM may or may not bring, and which if brought you will be able to defend if you wish.

There is a subset of posters on Legal who rail at the thought that a judge may adjudicate upon a disagreement they have with someone else. I’m not sure what some people think should happen in a civilised society when a dispute needs resolving.

The parents did agree and gran took legal action against them both. I truly believe courts shouldn't be giving legal rights of access outside of the family unit without extremely good reasons (such as gp having raised the DC or ss involvement). OP clearly felt pressured, maybe wasn't properly represented. Yes, she did agree but perhaps the legal process wasn't as thorough as it might have been in exploring how all this came about and whether it really was in the child's best interests. The court cannot have known at the time that the gran would be speaking badly about the mother to the child or demanding ever increasing access. This needs to be revisited imo and OP shouldn't be held to this arrangement if she, the child's primary carer decides it is not in their best interest.
I don't think the OP sounds paranoid. I think she sounds pissed off at having her family life dictated and I suspect a lot of posters on here would equally resent being forced to hand over their children.

I believe the role of the court should be to step in where separated parents cannot decide access arrangements between them. It's up to the dad if he wants to take the DC to see his mother during his time but it's not right to have that legally imposed.

I get your point collaborate. My point is when you've never been to a court before and never been in trouble with law etc it's very frightening and you automatically feel victimised and agree because you feel that if you don't you'll be forced too. Well that's how i felt anyway. I just feel it's so easy for emotional abusers to continue abusing their victims by dragging them through the court system. Then you have to face your abuser in a courtroom, it's very intimidating and unfair i feel. I'm just at the point in my life where i feel if you know you're never going to see eye to eye with someone then it's best to stay away and let children make their own minds up about contact in the future. And me and my ex agreed to him taking our Daughter to his mothers monthly, cafcass also agreed there should be no orders made as it wasn't necessary but the magistrates put an order down anyway. This was playing into her hands because it's all about control. Last time i had no solicitor as i didn't feel it necessary but this time i will be prepared. No way can you go to these kind of places alone.

The first time she took us to court i was not prepared and had no legal advice. I think we both agreed to her demands for a quiet life and i never spoke a bad word about her to cafcass as o just wanted to do things as amicably as possible with no he said she said. She was bad mouthing us both to cafcass so i think the officer got a brief idea of what was going on. The cafcass officer recommended a parenting plan for us. Me and my ex are actually parenting well together now and have a good relationship for our Daughter. The only time there is strain is when his mother starts behaving in this way. I apolgised to my ex for calling the police on his mother as that is his mum at the end of the day but he totally understood my reasons. I just feel her main issues are controlling him, she can't do that anymore and can't accept he's an adult living his life, he will never be a hands on dad and that's just the way he is but he's still my Daughters dad. This is why initiated contact with her and other family members at my home, just to let them know they're always welcome to come and visit but his mum wanted him there with our Daughter when he has a social life etc. I don't drink or go out at the weekends so I'm always with my children so not fair i have to hand my children over to her because my ex lives his life how he does. And this is what it comes down to.

The mediation place have said they have issued her with the FM1 form but they don't know if she'll apply for the C100 form. 100% she would of done this already, so over the next few weeks I'll be expecting court papers...again! And you know not once did this woman try and contact my ex or myself to try and sort something else. The last email i received was in January then prior to that a letter in December then bang- mediation. I did offer to meet her in a play centre but she didn't want that, she asked why it has to be on my terms 🙈🙈because I'm the parent i presume and you need to keep a certain amount of control like any mum. Court i would think should be last resort, but for her it's first choice because she can carry on being a controlling manipulative person and get away with it.

Why are you being so precious about your dd2's father? It really sounds like you are trying to hide something.

Why don't you just get a DNA test done, if only for your daughters sake? You don't need to share that information with anyone if you don't want to, but it seems that your ex is the father of both dd's and you've royally screwed up and now trying to backtrack to avoid that information coming out.

Please get your head out of your arse and do the right thing by your child.

Why does she need a DNA test? The OP knows who the father is, she is just declining to make that information public. DNA tests are for when there is doubt or to prove paternity for child support purposes. Since OP doesn't want cs, there's no point.
I expect she will let her child know at the appropriate time.

Me and my ex know the truth so that's all that matters. It's really a matter between us. And at this point DNA is irrelevant. If he doesn't want any responsibility for my baby then that says it all. The responsibility falls on to me solely so i have to do what i think is best for her. If he was that bothered about his rights or any contact with his extended family then he'd first initiate a paternity test then go about getting his name added to the birth certificate. He can more than afford legal fees too just to add. And you stated you think I'm hiding something about my ex because i defend him, remember this was my ex partner of 6 years and my Daughter loves him because he's her dad so i respect that. Our relationship only crumbled because of his mother too. Prior to that we got on well.

Her games actually started in 2015 whilst i was pregnant with my elder Daughter. Prior to being pregnant I'd met her once, but as soon as she found out i was pregnant she would not leave me alone, she would message me late at night telling me if i needed to talk about her son then she would always be there to listen because he was just like his dad and no good. I didn't reply because i was abit shocked she'd speak like that about her own son, she then tried calling so i had to block her. It was all abit too full on and wierd for me then 3 months before i had my Daughter she had said some very racial remarks about me and just plain nasty comments to her sons girlfriend who had repeated everything, she actually told her that my daughter was going to be with her all of the time. I chose to cut ties at that point but my ex was taking our Daughter there as and when. Apparently she'd applied to foster children too but got refused because her husband was charged with domestic violence on one of his ex wives but it's spent now i presume, but i never knew these things when i agreed to contact with my Daughter at the home. I did call the police station to get a Clares law report done for her partner because i do not know him and only knew he was not from our city and this was his fourth marriage and he has 2 Daughters that have nothing to do with him, maybe i watch too many crime documentaries but these days you can't be too careful. The sergeant i spoke too said there's nothing coming up to be worried about but could tell there is a charge there but he couldn't say, he told me to monitor closely, bit hard when you're not allowed to be there though! My ex said too that he was charged with domestic violence a long long time ago in a different city. I just question who the hell are these people desperate to have my little girls alone at their house. It creeps me out actually.

The reason I said to get a DNA test is because the elder child's father identity is openly acknowledged but the younger one isn't. That's the bit I don't get, and as pp have said, that is unfair.

Both children are being treated differently, is it to protect her from the grandmother? All children have two parents, whether they are in their life or not, and every child should know who their father is. What will you tell her when she's older and desperate to know who her father is? The grandmother doesn't need to be privy to this information, but your daughter does. I've seen this situation before and it's very damaging.

Also, as pp have said, this is about their welfare and not yours.

I've done what i need to do to protect my child from this deranged woman. And all perfectly legally. My ex partner supports this as he too maybe knows what she's like. And both of my kids are acknowledged and loved dearly, they're fortunate enough to have a lot of other extended family members too. In the future when and if she backs down i would like to maybe add her father to her birth certificate but as it stands at the moment it wont happen. Me and my ex have arrangements in order for our kids and it works but it doesn't work when his mother starts her trouble and effects our parenting. She will be hoping to really get her sons back up this time too and to drag him through the courts again but he will not be made aware of any of this because a respondent is a parent that holds PR. Maybe her plan may backfire this time.

I'm sorry, but I'm confused. On the one hand you say your ex is an alcoholic drug user who's as bad as his mum and isn't bothered about the dc, then you say

Me and my ex have arrangements in order for our kids and it works

So is your ex on board or not?

By the way, from what you've said the grandmother seems awful.

My ex is on board as much as he ever will be. He's never going to be daddy daycare, that's a fact, but he'd never see the kids without anything. He's just not the type to be sat in with children. He goes out drinking at the weekends with his friends and always has done but he doesn't drink around my Daughters or myself so it's not my business. And his mum is not a nice person. Maybe to her friends etc they might find her to be a nice woman but the side I've seen of her is of a very manipulative, desperate cunning woman that will stop at nothing to get my kids.

It's all a big mess op. I wish you and your daughters luck

Thank you. I'll need more than luck because she'll never give in. She believes she has some entitlement and special right to my children. She's told me before she should be able to just of turned up at my door anytime and taken my Daughter out to the park etc. Boundaries are a problem for her but when I've tried to talk about this with her she claims she has no clue what i mean, so it's normal behaviour for her but can't deal with anyone like that. It's hard work and i will never trust her again, ever. I gave her the consistent contact she was looking for with my elder and she through it straight back in my face and took me to court, so this time I've not started anything with my baby because so she has nothing to go on.

I literally just keep telling myself over that could a judge or whover make an order on a 1 year old baby that has never seen or had contact with this woman, because orders are made for contact that has been there I'd presume. I am the only parent too and i am saying a massive no.

Me and my ex know the truth so that's all that matters. It's really a matter between us. And at this point DNA is irrelevant

You keep saying that all you want is what best for your children, but all you do is fight against you ex's mother to get what you want and shoe little sign of doing what is actually best for the child.

There's clearly doubt over the paternity of your youngest. You say you were separated from your ex, from what you've written, it sounds like you had an affair, and the reason he wanted nothing to do with the youngest was because he didn't believe she was his.

Now it sounds like he is not sure and happy to play dad but with the option to step out at any time if it suits him. This suits you too.

Only his mother shoes some level of maturity and care for the child. A child who deserves to know whether the man who is kind of but not totally her father actually is. The right to have a relationship with her family members like her sister has, or if not, to grow to understand that this because they don't have the same dad.

You seem totally blind to understanding how this situation, lies (or whether you conveniently refer to 'private matters' affects both your children.

Being a good mum is much more than loving them and providing care. It is giving them the tools to grow a sense of identity that is healthy and giving them the chance to bond with other family members. You seem to believe that all they need is your life. You are heading for a very big shock when they get older if you continue with that attitude.

I have skipped 5 pages as I have to go out .

Honestly it would be simpler to reply if it was clear of your dd1’s dad is dd2dad. For the purpose of my post I will assume he is but know he us not on bc and has no pr.

I am not a legal expert but my understanding is that a gp can only apply for an order of contact if they already have a relationship with gp’s . So as contact already seems to be an issue with eldest you are doing the right thing with second .

I did mediation with my ex in which he threw in ExMil was taking me to court for contact. The mediator told me that contact with parent is sorted first which in your case dad is. It interested.

I would address with a solicitor the concerns about eldest contact.

I think the posters are telling you the children are been treated differently then that is because dad is not interested in child 2.

How does it work when dad visits dd1, does he ignore dd2? As that in itself will become very tough on dd2 in time.

I also accept it is the safest way to supervise dd1. Do remember when you say how he behaves now is none of your business remember he is role modelling what a man should be.