Am I entitled to know where the DC are on holiday?

[ilovemilton]

Shared care order. Two weeks court ordered holiday in August and one in October.

He is taking the children, 10 and 7, away on holiday during these weeks. He says the details of such are non of my business and he refuses to tell me any dates or locations. This is making the already hostile 10yo refuse to go to contact even more. DC have never been away from home this long without me and this is just adding to their distress.

Am I meant to know where they are? If so, how is this enforceable?

You can apply for an emergency hearing if you believe your DCs are at risk.

If you have witness statements which confirm that he forced the DCs to undress in public, and that he assaulted you in front of them, and police records that show he's on bail for that assault, a decent solicitor/barrister could easily convince a judge to issue an temporary order.

Sell whatever you need to in order to fund an emergency application before they are due to go.

Have you spoken to a solicitor yet, OP?

Yes he's advised contact should continue.

despite abuse of the children and an assault on you? Find another solicitor. Did they tell you that you could apply for an emergency order?

despite abuse of the children and an assault on you? Find another solicitor. Did they tell you that you could apply for an emergency order?

They said that I don't need to as he is going to be arrested and they will impose bail conditions. Would they not impose anything to say to stay away from the children?

I'm also wary of opening the whole intolerable case all over again. The same CAFCASS lady will be appointed and she was totally on his side. I postponed contact before when ds was held against a wall by his chest, seen by police but no action taken. I was criticised to hell and back for overreacting. Apparently low level abuse is better than no contact.

If you get a solicitor this time it may well be different.

I don't think you have a choice tbh. You have to do this for your kids.

CAFCASS aren't always involved in an emergency hearing - it's you, your legal rep and a judge.
Straightforward yes or no. Temporary decision.
Then a further hearing is scheduled.
By which time, your ex will have been arrested.relying on the arrest and bail conditions is risky - he won't be arrested for any offences against the DCs so it's unlikely he'll be bailed to stay away from them, I would think?

I'm shocked at the number of poor legal advisors you've had - it's very unlucky indeed not to find at least one who will protect the DCs.

I really don't know what to do.

Emergency hearing, say contact is suspended. What then? We go back to court and we start the whole crappy process of supervised back up to where we are now. It will only protect them in the short term.

I wouldn't do anything until you've had someone review your case, OP. By all means get a second opinion but I wouldn't go rushing in for an emergency hearing.

Your case is unusually complex. You are at risk of having your children removed from your care. You need someone who understands the law and has the full details of your case, not just the snippets posted here.

CAFCASS aren't always involved in an emergency hearing - it's you, your legal rep and a judge. Straightforward yes or no. Temporary decision

Although the judge will of course have the court file, which will have copies of the Cafcass reports.

OP, I presume from your latest posts that you took very recent legal advice and were advised that you should allow holiday contact to go ahead? And this is despite the wording of the order saying that it is for your ex to return the matter to court if contact cannot be agreed? You can of course seek a second opinion if you are not happy, but your legal advisers will be better able to give you an idea of the best way forward than people on this forum.

FWIW to other posters, if the OP has stopped contact in the past over similar allegations, it may well be that a judge will not be sympathetic to stopping it over the latest incident (unless it is significantly more serious in nature than anything previously reported).

I think it's actually not helping for us to discuss the case here. OP needs a good solicitor with experience of contact disputes with abusers. That solicitor needs to go through everything and advise. Apart from encouraging the OP to get a suitable solicitor I don't think there is any useful legal advice we can give.

I managed to obtain a non mol order protecting me and my dc for less than what you have described.

I can't believe they think low level abuse is the better option. At what point do they actually put the welfare of the children first?

Did you already have a final contact order?

Did the non mol make references to the dc also?

Please also refer to CAMHS for your child's anxiety and suicidal thoughts. Also counselling sounds appropriate.

Mycatsabastard, it's fairly 'easy' (as these things go) to get an ex parte non mol the first time round. The court errs on the side of caution and the non-mol order only prevents the respondent from doing something he shouldn't have been doing anyway. In this case, there is a history of this behaviour which is well known to Cafcass and the courts. It has not persuaded the court in the past to limit contact, and in fact there is a shared care arrangement. If OP has been advised that the court is unlikely to suspend the order this time around, it is better for her to listen to her legal adviser.

Agree with AnotherEmma

I'm so sorry ilovemilton - this is horrible. Where is he planning on taking them on holiday then?

Ah the original point of the story...

He's going to stay at his mother's. In a teeny 3 bed, with 3 adults already living there. It's just about as inhabitable as exh house, but that's a whoooole other story...

Hardly any point for all of this drama and secrecy really was there? He looked really embarrassed when he had let it slip in temper.

I just want to send you strength and best wishes because the system has treated you and your DC so badly.

I've witnessed parental alienation by a Mum so the lengths some parents (both men and women) will go to in damaging their DC all to get back at their ex's is so scary and sad and I don't think it's as rare as people want to believe

thisis I was definitely not suggesting that the op make a court order application, just pointing out that some men have done less and been kept away from the dc for the safety of the children.

In my case there was a massive history of dv and emotional and physical abuse towards me and as he could no longer abuse me, was starting to emotionally abuse my children instead. Awful things he told them and it was seriously affecting my 10 year old.

The Judge gave me the order and thankfully he's kept away for 2 years now. It's been a good time for healing, getting my children's mental health sorted and keeping them safe.

He must provide you with these details. I am surprised that this is not included in the order. Contact his solicitor if he had one and demand them otherwise you could ask the court. If you do this you could Tell the father you will need to make an urgent application to the court for him to provide the details. Is there risk of child abduction?

His solicitor has been ignoring me on all issues since we had the final order. In terms of abduction, I think he is too lazy. What I think he will do, is just mess about with times and when he brings them back to suit him. Like he will keep them extra days, until he needs to go to work.

I'm now in a position where I have two terrified and fed up children who don't want to go to contact tomorrow. The police haven't taken action yet as he isn't home when they go to arrest him - how long will that carry on for? So basically, he can do what he wants and continues his reign of control.

milton who have you spoken to about your terrified DCs?

You've had social services involvement in the past, and a care order has been suggested, due to the level of conflict between you and your ex.

You now have evidence - your ex is wanted on suspicion of assault on you, and abuse of the DCs. Call social services. If necessary, let the LA take court action. Even if a care order is issued, they won't be removed from you - and you continue to have parental responsibility, but decisions to do with the DCs must be agreed by the LA. That will help you, as there is now independent evidence that your ex abuses them.

Even if a care order is issued, they won't be removed from you

How do you know this, Time?

Her ex is wanted on suspicion and yet the Judge has put measures in the order to stop the OP from making further allegations. You need to be very careful advising the OP to push on making more allegations when you don't have the full case history.

I'm not suggesting the OP makes further allegations - I am suggesting that she seeks advice from professionals on what to do about her "terrified DCs".

Even if that is no more than an independent assessment of their state of mind by a social worker which then puts the OPs mind at rest.