Antisemitism

[bubbleandsqueak1976]

I read the posts on here with interest and often the subject of anti semitism comes up. I was brought up in a town in the South East. My mum gave me a book about Anne Frank when I was around 8 and I can remember asking ' what is a Jew?' as I had never met one. When I was about 14 a girl from northern Israel came to my school and I was asked to befriend her and help her settle in. I can remember being fascinated about her life in a Kibbutz and she used to show me
Hebrew writing. I don't recall ever hearing anything anti semitic about her or her brother as the only two Jewish kids - to my knowledge in the school. I also remember in my twenties encountering a group of lads from North London - white something and them having an absolute hatred for Jewish people. I can remember feeling utterly shocked as I'd never heard anti Jewish speak prior to this. Reading some of the recent posts on here it has made me wonder wherever there are pockets in the Uk with Jewish communities that experience antisemitism where the rest of the UK it does not occur as people simply have never met a Jewish person just their life- to their knowledge.Where I live I have only met 4 Jewish people in the Uk in my life and I am 47. The most Jewish people I have met were in Israel when I visited in 2000.

Well, judging by your NN, I am about the same age as you. I grew up in north London, surrounded by the Jewish community (and have some distant Jewish heritage) and never met anyone who expressed antisemitism openly. However we were all aware that the Jewish schools and shuls, needed extra security, volunteer patrols and that there were incidents.

So yes I would say your area and your social networks has a huge impact on what you encounter. That would make sense.

Now, unfortunately, I think there is much more anti-semitism being expressed openly or dog whistled, and SM is a big part of why it carries.

That is as I imagined.Where I lived I doubt many had ever met a Jewish person so anti semtism or commenting about Jewish people was something I never encountered. I recently looked to see how big the Jewish community was in my town and less than a hundred. Incidentally, the 3rd and 4th Jewish people I met were my sister in law and her mum (father and grandaparents passed away and no siblings). She is of Sephardic descent and I was really excited hoping she would do Friday night dinners and Hannukah etc and I would be invited but alas this was not to be. Thanks for your response. The antisemitism that occurs in certain parts of the country is certainly an eye opener.

Anti-semitism happens everyone. You don't have to have (knowingly) met a Jewish person to be Anti-semitic.

Thanks for that. This is what I am intrigued by. I have never met an Aborigine or a Native American so have no opionion of them, their behaviour, morals etc. I just literally have no reason to have any opinion of them whatsoever. I therefore don't understand why many people in the UK would be antisemetic. Antisemitism isn't taught in schools, I doubt the Jewish faith is discussed in families where there aren't Jewish communities. It is literally just a non topic. Or are Jewish people only spoken about in regards to politics? Sorry if I sound really thick, but as mentioned I am 47 and have literally never heard anyone say anything antisemtitic apart from the chaps from North London I mentioned. When my brother married a non practicing jewish person I heard not a single person make any negative comment whatsover.

I am not Jewish but I went to a Jewish school in the North West. Anti semitic views were significant then (I'm early 30s).

That to me is incredible, antisemtism almost feels like a thing of the past to me. I am saying that from my experience as a non jewish person and not in anyway deminishing what people experience. What do you feel was the root of these views? Religion?

Lack of knowledge is a major problem with antisemitism. I'm Jewish and I think people are often unaware of how few of us there are in the UK. They may assume we are just 'keeping ourselves to ourselves' target rather than realising there are just very few us, especially outside large cities.

I grew up in North London, so somewhere with a high concentration of other Jews and never experienced antisemitism (I'm in my mid 40s), or overheard any - and given I don't have a Jewish name people won't know I'm Jewish.

Tbh, I think most people aren't antisemitic, I suspect far more people are Islamophobic sadly because that is pretty much encouraged by much of the right wing media, which is most of it.

That's interesting. I have certainly heard far more Islamaphobic comments than I have ever heard antisemetic comments. Again not diminishing anyones experience, just what I have heard in my life.

It never ceased to shock me and I also only encountered it when I no longer lived in north London. I don't know if people just kept it to themselves on the assumption I had lots of Jewish mates (which I did), but since then it's been quite eye opening. Just casual tropes, sort of harmless sort of not. "Don't know why she works given how rich her family is, well he would be good with money given his religion, of course she is the treasurer she's Jewish". I find this quite offensive already and haven't even come across outright hatred (although I think it's the same people saying much worse things, just not in my presence). Baddiel was absolutely right.

Anti-Semitism is ingrained in our cultural DNA. There is a 2000 year old tradition behind it and it is central to both Christianity and Islam. My heart goes out to the Jewish community. Anti-Semitism never goes away completely, but it is much more out in the open now because of events in the Middle East.

That is really quite incredible. I am really intrigued to know why these sort of thoughts are so common place, what is driving them? As mention, I say this as someone who has iterally heard no, what I consider, anti semetic comment in my life.

Historically Islam is actually quite friendly to Jews as fellow 'People of the Book', Christianity has a far longer and nastier tradition of antisemitism because we 'Killed Jesus' and so on.

But this is what I don't get. The UK is really not a religious country, I remember looking a while back of the dwindling number of practicing Christians.Most people in the UK are Culturally Christian (celebrate Christmas/Easter etc) but never set foot in a church. So why would Christian religion be such an influence? I read the Quran a number of years back and seem to recall that the prophet had a Jewish wife so is anti jewish feeling really ingrained or has it been influenced by politics? Not a rhetorical question.

That's what I always thought. I thought Antisemitim was a European manisfestation as opposed to something grown from the Middle East etc.

We’re not particularly a Christian country now but anti-Semitism is very old. Anti-Semitic ideas long ago entered the culture. And I’m afraid the hatred of the Jews is found in Islam too. And it’s not just about religion, anti-Semitism is also a species of racism. Of course politics (Israel/Palestine) is a factor too.

I saw a post online not too long ago that was along the lines on "there are barely any Jews in Britain, I don't even know any, so how come they get to control our media/"

Edit: Just noticed this post got moved,

I'm a Jewish woman from NW London. Went to a non-Jewish school and have never, ever experienced antisemitism. Now, however, it's hard to avoid online. I may not agree with the Israeli government.. so why would someone hate me?

Most (if not all) Jewish people are charitable and family oriented. There's always the exception but surely that's true of all religions?

I think quite a lot of what we see online from the political left is more anti religion than it is anti Jewish. People don't like religion, they don't really understand that Jews are a people as much as a faith, more so much of the time.

I can understand to some extent why someone who doesn't get this can be thinking 'Why do they have to have a country for their stupid religion anyway?' When Israel, and most people don't realise this, isn't even actually founded as a religious country. And it's about Jews as a people not a faith (and your average Israeli is incredibly secular). But people don't know that - they might think we're there because we think 'God gave it to us' or that we inherently hate Palestinians or Muslim people.

Antisemitism is rife. Predominantly seems to come from one demographic. Too many examples as of recent than i could list. My dds experience at school. She had lots and again, always from the same demographic. I don't look jewish so people have let slip their thoughts thinking I'd agree with them. Most recently in Barclays. You should have seen their face when they became aware I was jewish...😅 and fwiw, most of it wasn't Israel related either, stuff straight out of goebbels book of propaganda.

Antisemitism is not just a European thing. It's always been an issue in the Middle East too. The European antisemitism is just more well-documented

think quite a lot of what we see online from the political left is more anti religion than it is anti Jewish. People don't like religion, they don't really understand that Jews are a people as much as a faith, more so much of the time.

I think you're being much too generous, there TBH.

A lot of the Corbynites and similar had very clearly arrived at a very anti-Semitic position by the route of deciding that Muslims are the National and International underdogs, and then - well who knows exactly- but then it became quite an extreme position, but very obviously widely held. I still don't believe that Starmer has stamped it. It's more that he's smoothed it over. The JC front page before whichever election that was, was so, so powerful.

And yes OFC it's all about the numbers. About voting blocks as well as ideological support for the "underdog". I remember being told in an RE class (in north London) 30 years ago how big the British Jewish population was versus Muslim and how the Muslim population was expected to multiply through the 90s and 00s. I was really surprised at the time because I had a north London teenage perspective.

It really worries me now, because it's broken the surface and I don't see it going away, but I can also see that it's largely invisible to people with no experience of Judaism (secular or whatever), although I can't quite work out why it's invisible to them. Probably the thing of being so deeply embedded in the culture.

The JC front page for anyone who didn't see it. It was spot on and well worth a read.

twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1192359549904343040

I'm very open about things and there is a clear pattern that whenever I bring into conversation about my most recent jew hatred experiences I am always met with genuine shock/disbelief. Outside of family I don't mix in jewish circles work or socially. My friends/work associates are a good mix. My husband struggles with it too (he's not Jewish) however my more recent experiences of Jewish hatred have been so awful that even he has been unable to do his usual positive slant and try to play it down. Instead I'm met with silence as he accepts defeat in that he is wrong and that there is a new powerful form of jew hatred that is growing in the uk. I've been on the receiving end of pure hatred. No israel to hide behind. Disgusting stuff that comes from nothing more than a deep rooted hatred. One that was probably a learnt normalised way of thinking

I think antisemitism has become quite "trendy". Awful to say but it's what I have observed over the past few months. There is absolutely visceral hatred of Israel that simply is not a thing towards other, arguably more aggressive countries. But if you say that (eg on the ME board) you'd get shouted down by people accusing you of dismissing any criticism of Israel as antisemitic, nuance being beyond tha capabilities of some people.

The number of Jewish voices on that board has significantly decreased because it is an awful corner of the Internet if you are of Jewish heritage. I know there are worse places but you don't expect it on MN, or for it to be allowed to stand in the name of "debate."

I have experienced antisemitism- long before all of this and it wasn't knowingly aimed at me because the people saying those things had no idea of my heritage. To my shame on all.those occasions I sat there and squirmed uncomfortably because I didn't know what to say. I'd be bolshier now, I think (hope).

Sorry, cross posted with you @beethecrackon24995 How awful, I'm so sorry.

I am rapidly reaching the conclusion that antisemitism has always been a feature of our society but the Holocaust made it unacceptable to say so for a while. Now the gloves are off and no-one cares. Something very ugly has been unleashed since Oct 7th,and antisemitism has become totally acceptable again.