Mumsnet could do better (part deux)

[stomachameleon]

Ok I have taken the bait because I think it's important we have somewhere to chat and decompress.

There is an awful lot of name changing going on and we must remember that although it should be, this is not a safe space. We are followed here and that is worth considering (especially if you don't want to be deleted)

I am grateful for all the love and support though and I thank each and every one of you. You are all stronger than you know. I wish I had something profound to say but I don't...: this will have to do!

In other news - guess who's apparently starting a new political party? So happy I'm not going to be politically homeless anymore. Can't wait to join! 🙃

Noooo! It'll end up being a left and Corbyn coalition 😭 And as a result, another wholly ineffectual government.

Tbh I can't see that happening. No way Starmer would go into coalition with him when he could so with the Lib Dems and Greens. I can't see many of the current Lab membership joining either, the biggest loser will be the Greens because that's where the 'Keith' crowd have defected to. Jez' party will basically be the political wing of StWC.

@etmoiandme fingers crossed you're right! Although I still haven't forgiven the lib dems for uni tuition fees.... Not that I hold grudges or anything 😇

since we have you here and you appear to be more lurker than Jewish (apologies if I got that wrong! I'm basing that on the fact you have no posting history apart from the posts this morning), could you explain what you are trying to achieve by being here just to read and report posts? I have no problem with posts that go against guidelines being reported and removed, I'm just curious as to why you and/or others would be on here in the first place? Are you just keeping an eye on us, and if so why? Or are you here because you're looking for answers about something? And if so, what? Maybe one of us has an answer for you

Speaking for myself I read because I see this as an extension of the Middle East board since that’s what this thread often discusses. Just curious I guess. I don’t snoop in any of the other threads here.
As for reporting posts, well for the reason any other post is reported. If it seems out of order.
And no it’s not just Jewish women. The guidelines apply to all.

The question I would ask you is do you think it’s fair to have a thread that basically slags a group of people off half the time (out of frustration rather than malice I appreciate) that they are not allowed to respond to and you feel shouldn’t be questioned.

@Lostmyphoneagain This board isn't an extension of the M.E. board so let's get that clear. It's for Jewish women. There's a horrendous amount of antisemitism on the other board, which we're perfectly within our rights to discuss. which in fact was the motivation for this and the preceding thread. Granted, a few posters did make specific mention of a poster upthread, but as you will see they were unaware this was permitted.

You know it's bad form to post over here, otherwise you wouldn't have name changed. Do you barge into Black or Asian Mumsnetters as well?

Speaking for myself I read because I see this as an extension of the Middle East board since that’s what this thread often discusses.

Well it's not. Can't you see the name of the board? Or the banner at the top? I suggest you get your eyes checked.

Well it's not. Can't you see the name of the board? Or the banner at the top? I suggest you get your eyes checked
I know it isn’t literally. But this thread does exist to discuss that board and knowing that people are going to be tempted to read. I suppose eavesdroppers never hear any good of themselves tbf 😂 but any posts that break talk guidelines are probably gonna be reported.

I'm sorry but I think that is a bad faith answer @Lostmyphoneagain . There are a few boards that were created in response to the "main" boards elsewhere (Black MNers and MNers with disabled children spring to mind immediately, I'm sure there are others). MNers without children is another.

All boards are of course visible to anyone, this being an Internet forum, but honestly what you are saying really sounds like obsessive snooping. Of course posts breaking talk guidelines will be deleted but reading this thread with a view to policing it is just weird and unpleasant. I know for a fact that the post I had deleted was not about any particular poster. But people venting does not break talk guidelines.

Honestly, if you have nothing positive to contribute then I politely suggest that you leave us alone. Otherwise it just looks weird and stalkerish.

I'm sorry but I think that is a bad faith answer
It was an honest answer. I’m not asking you to think well of it.

I know for a fact that the post I had deleted was not about any particular poster
But people venting does not break talk guidelines
No I know. It was unnecessarily rude though. And presumably it did break talk guidelines or it wouldn’t have been deleted.

Honestly, if you have nothing positive to contribute then I politely suggest that you leave us alone. Otherwise it just looks weird and stalkerish.
I was asked to explain why I was lurking on this board by another poster which is what I was responding to.

If the lurkers really wanted to learn something new, they'd make themselves known briefly and occasionally engage by asking questions about specific things.

But since this isn't what happens, I lean more towards a form of control.

Perhaps I should check out the conflict section more thoroughly in case MN has been slacking on legal responsibilities or not taken action against sneaking regarders. 🤔

Problem is time and priorities.

But since this isn't what happens, I lean more towards a form of control

Exactly @DownNative

Agree @DownNative and @etmoiandme . @Lostmyphoneagain seems to remember more about my deleted post than I do.

Fully and totally agree with everything you've said here!

There's a poster I've noticed who is very good and makes many of the same points I make. Difference between us is I'm more direct and blunt - actual experience of terrorism, apologists and sneaking regarders will do that.

Very good poster. Will share an example later.

@Lostmyphoneagain, it isn't your job to police what we talk about here. Please leave us alone. You're weirdly obsessed with us.

Seen a few of that type of post now and I am not surprised to see its incredibly one sided.

I mean, sure, the Israeli military does have its own weaknesses but all sovereign power militaries do.

And so do all terrorist groups - from every iteration of the IRAs to ETA to FARC to Al-Quaida to ISIS to Hamas and so on. One of the biggest achilles heel for terrorist groups is people - as in they never really have enough in their ranks, personnel become demoralised, arrested, killed and so on.

Typically, Sovereign Power armies are bigger, better equipped, can more easily replace lost numbers and so on. In cases where they can't easily win they can hold - and holding is one of the worst things a terrorist group can face against a State's military.

That's why 21st Century terrorist groups are hybrid threats - they know they can't defeat a Sovereign Power so they resort to lawfare. In other words, they try to tie a State's resources up in defending themselves against claims made by terrorist groups, e.g., shoot to kill allegations, abuse, torture, genocide allegations, countering terrorist propaganda, etc.

This is significantly different and more effective than the 20th Century terrorist groups could manage. 21st Century terrorist groups are more efficient, kill more people, oppress more people and are much better at propaganda.

It's harder for State's to deal effectively with today's terrorist groups.

PIRA, UVF, ETA, FARC and so on were relatively tame compared to Hamas, ISIS, AQ, etc. Even though most of these groups had connections with each other in the late 20th Century with Iran as a common denominator.

I'm afraid those predicting an Israeli defeat don't really understand what's actually going on.

Eventually, Hamas will be defeated by a Whole Of Government approach similar to the UK Government’s against PIRA. But significantly different in many ways.

It'll take a while.

Put it this way, if Hezbollah is as strong as some posters believe and Israel as weak as they believe too....why exactly do they think Hezbollah hasn't seriously attacked?

Simple - Hezbollah have serious weaknesses themselves. Lebanon itself will not be able to cope with a full on conflict.

That's why Hezbollah has launched relatively minor attacks so far. Anything else is far too risky for them.

I think also a timely reminder of Arab States who have normalised relations with Israel or were very close to is needed:

Egypt
Jordan
Bahrain

Similar deals followed with Morocco and Sudan.

Saudi Arabia was very close to a deal with Israel and the US has indicated Saudi is still in favour.

Of course, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah rejected these as did Hamas. Surprise, surprise(!)

This indicates the direction of travel in the region from 1979 to 2023. In other words, Western, Israeli and Arab States WILL decide what any future settlement will look like in the region.

Palestinian Authority's Fatah, Hamas and any other Palestinian representative group will have to accept it since they are not a meaningful power in the region.

In the same way Germany and Italy were not a meaningful power in Europe post-war so had to accept whatever the West and Russia laid down. Likewise, Japan had to accept what the United States laid down.

Those three examples worked especially because their society was and still is ashamed of their part in the war.

Gazan society and Palestinian society in general is very different - there's no indication of shame for their actions over time.

Other Arab States have learned from their past conflicts with Israel and do not want to risk repeating it in future. So, several Arab States have normalised relations with Israel.

If Palestinians don't accept the existence of Israel, they'll face a very bleak future. But first the Palestinians must accept their own leaders have utterly failed them for their own selfish agendas since 1948.

Accepting so will be transformative and leads the way towards Palestinian acceptance of the existence of the State of Israel.

Just as the UK stood firm in its policy that there can be NO coercion of Ulster, so the United States will stand firm in its policy of NO coercion of Israel. Failure to do so will be disastrous.

But since this isn't what happens, I lean more towards a form of control

I guess this is some people’s version of including Jews in their activism.

Perhaps I should check out the conflict section more thoroughly in case MN has been slacking on legal responsibilities or not taken action against sneaking regarders. 🤔

I was told recently that describing a proscribed terrorist organisation who recently carried out a brutal massacre as self defence and a logical response to oppression was something that should be debated on thread rather than deleted.

Some of the mods are spot on and I’ve really appreciated their efforts, a few have a serious unconscious bias issue and shouldn’t be anywhere near the CME board or this one.

Who told you that about terrorist groups?

If it was a moderator, then @Mumsnet is walking a very fine line since it has a legal responsibility to ensure there is no hint of glorification, justification or the like of any terrorist group in the UK under law.

On that note, I've just spotted a GB based poster who clearly thinks they're well enough informed on PIRA to use the UK response to them as a stick with which to beat the Israeli Government over the head with.

The UK hasn't faced a sustained assault of such scale from airborne missiles or an invasion since WW2 ended in 1945!

There's absolutely NO comparison between the capabilities of PIRA and Hamas. None!

If UK faced what Israel does, it would have responded in a completely different way to the one against a terrorist group who barely scratched the British Army's numbers, barely scratched the death toll of British citizens and whose terrorist personnel numbers was actually very small after reorganisation from 1976 onwards as its insurgency phrase was defeated.

Ridiculous to see that is still trotted out on Mumsnet. 🤦‍♂️

@DownNative It was a moderator, yes.

I don’t really understand the frequent juxtaposition of PIRA and Hamas. Overall, the two situations seem barely comparable.

Possibly because if you compare Hamas to al-Qaeda you’d have to admit we started a prolonged war in the Middle East in response to their terrorism and totally fucked the retreat?

Omg he is, like Farage, truly unflushable.

Is this his revenge on Labour for kicking him out? What a sad, pathetic individual he is.

@noblegiraffe So that's a "yes" for new membership then? Can sign up Truly in the meantime as 'in absentia'.

And yeah, absolutely reeks of childish revenge doesn't it.

I'd lean towards the mod being incorrect as freedom of speech doesn't trump the terrorism act at all. No such thing as speech free of consequences.

The only real link between PIRA and Hamas is they were very much part of the international terrorist network. Saw each other as being engaged in the same struggle and, therefore, as terrorist comrades in arms.

Pretty laughable when you think about it!

"Unflushable" 😂😂😂🤮