The mind numbing boredom of infertility IV

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

Yes it's the return of the thread where we're so fucking bored of being infertile and talking about infertility and thinking about infertility and worrying and infertility and learning about infertility treatment and explaining infertility to other people and making up lies to cover up for going for infertility tests and treatment that we can't even be bothered to think of a better name for the thread.

Join us if you are barren, bored and bitter, or any combination of the above. We'll listen to your tails of woe when everyone you've ever met upduffs in an instant, accompany you through the trials of tests and treatment and commiserate the inevitable setbacks and disappointments.

Welcome to the ghetto.

When I can work out links, I'll post linnks to threads 1, 2 and 3

Closephine I don't know why it's gone up (mine did too, substantially) but you've nothing to worry about. You're bang in normal range, and are a way off PCO range.

My AMH is 62.2 which is in indicative of polycystic ovaries. PCO isn't necessarily PCOS - AMH is just important to judge necessary dose of stims. If you're ovulating regularly then PCOS isn't likely to be an issue

Thanks Banana, that's reassuring! I think perhaps this is why PA's aren't supposed to give out results but I guess I did ask her!

I've had a load of follicle tracking and iui etc and all has been fine so assume I'm ovulating ok. One thing I did notice, in the natural cycles my leading follicle always got to about 20-21mm, during the stimulated one it was 25mm. Would that mean anything or is 20-21 ok too and stimulated was just better?

Hi everyone,

DH & I went away for a few days for Jovan's due date, and to relax for part of the 2ww. The due date was not a sad day in the end, but very reflective. We climbed a little hill near where we were staying and there was the most beautiful rainbow on the other side. We hoped it might be a sign

So I decided to test early today as it's DH's birthday... I got a second pink line, I can't quite believe it. I'm 9dp5dt, it's faint but definitely there, hopefully will get stronger by OTD on Wednesday.

Lovely, lovely news blue what Fab news on a Monday, I am so pleased for you both! 😊

Thank you bitter. The nausea is starting to kick in so it's starting to feel a bit more real...

Congratulations Blue! So pleased for you and also pleased to hear Jovan's due date wasn't a sad day for you. I reckon the rainbow was definitely a sign

Massive congrats Blue!!! I'm so pleased for you. How are you feeling, other than queasy?

Anyone watch Panorama last night? Bloody hell. We've decided to ask for a fresh embryo transfer if we have any next time, instead of having PGS. They used ICSI at Care, even though DH had 90+ million sperm & normal morphology. We just kept saying 'yes' to everything they suggested.

Massive congrats blue!

I posted this on another thread about PGS - reposting here for posterity, as you ladies know we had PGS - this was our thought process

The problem is that people don't want to enter into clinical trials so there simply isn't the evidence available and most interventions are based on empirical evidence

They say PGS has no evidence in favour of it - which I can believe, because the Cochrane evidence is based on 10 years of FISH data. And FISH was crap compared to NGS. But regardless of the RCT data, without PGS, we would have been throwing embryos into my uterus without knowing if the problem was the seed or the soil.

My four frozen embryos were ALL PGS abnormal. Statistically at least one of them should have been normal. We could have done 4 failed FET / more miscarriages and we wouldn't have known which cycles we had fixed the uterine environment (my first miscarriage was of a chromosomally normal embryo) but the embryo was a dud. Or whether the embryo was normal but the problem was me. Or both

Even if we say best case one would have self corrected and was a false negative. That's still 3/4 abnormals. And I still miscarried a PGS normal and so with an untested embryo we'd have been none the wiser as to what was the likely cause that needed addressing

We saved ourselves 4 cycles that were always doomed to failure by doing PGS - for which there is no evidence, but I wasn't prepared to be a guinea pig.

We know I have now miscarried two chromosomally normal embryos and that the problem is me. Which we wouldn't know without PGS. Which means diagnostically we can draw a line in the sand. If we can't fix the uterine environment then we know I won't be able to support a pregnancy

Embryo grading is just a beauty contest. It doesn't say anything about the genetic integrity of the embryo. PGS may be unproven but I can't see the alternative would have offered us any benefits whatsoever

See I totally agree with you Banana. Some things just make sense.

Thanks Fuzzy. I'm in a happy bubble at the moment, but reality/anxiety will kick in before too long I expect.

Hello ladies, I have tried so many times to creep out the cupboard and say hello to all of you. After reading what people have been through I felt really stupid moaning about my own problems and didn't feel like I had the right words to offer anybody support. Also made a good effort to step away from google etc for a few months.
Seen your tentitive BFP blue and wanted to whisper a congrats. Sharing what you have been through with Jovan is incredibly amazing and I wish you every bit of luck this time round.
For months I've wanted to reply to fuzzy, without giving a dumbwit response. I am sure you and your DH have had far too many of them! Fuzzy what you have been through is unimaginable and I admire your strength. Sharing your memories of your beautiful boy is a wonderful thing to do and I am sorry that you've encountered so many thoughtless, inconsiderate arseholes 😡
Big hellos to the rest of you lovely ladies and apologies for being a wimp since I last posted.

Hello Pebbles. Thank you for your kind words. My tentative BFP is now a triple tested official BFP so I have checked in with the clinic and scheduled a scan on 14th. And I'll be seeing GP tomorrow for referral to EPU. Please feel free to share your story, there is no competition here as to who's got it worst, we've all been through tough times and the virtual support is lovely.

Thank you Pebbles. I wish you well. It's not easy ttc after child loss, and (thank goodness) there aren't many of us around, so there's very little support out there for it. There are lots of forums related to pregnancy & infant loss, but not the loss of a toddler or older. So we muddle through as best we can. Last week was the anniversary of Billy-Joe's funeral, which has sunk us both a bit. If any of my mcs had stuck, we'd have another baby by now, so it's another sad xmas for us. We're not acknowledging xmas again this year, but it's impossible to avoid it, which is getting us down. Roll on January!

Congrats Blue. That's wonderful news

Thanks Banana. We've talked at length & decided to stick with the PGS. Last time it was a moot point as none of the embryos made it to blast. We're expecting the same again, in which case we'll get the £3K refunded anyway.

CD5 on Monday so I start the hormone priming ready for stims at the end of Dec. Got a fridge full of drugs again! To get to the Asda pharmacy I had to pass a giant 50 foot santa & a big neon sign reminding me that the children have 23 more sleeps before xmas. Fuck off......

Hi fuzzy this time of year must be horrible for you and DH, especially with having the anniversary of Billy Joes funeral to get through.
I cannot imagine where you would begin to reach out and look for support to deal with your loss. It must be very hard to open up about at times and not something you want to search for. I do hope you have received some support. Whatever support you get, can only do so much to ease the pain.

I do hope that you have room in the fridge for some good treats to get you through your next cycle and you both find something comforting to do that doesn't involve going out!
I found the injections enjoyable, I actually felt like I was doing something productive and gave me something to focus on.
Really wish that you get some to blast stage and even some to freeze. Do you have an idea of when the transfer would be if your doing PGS?

I completed my 2nd go of IVF in Oct. I am currently coming up to 10wks, just waiting for a scan to confirm all is still well. Everything was fine at the 7 wk scan but I know how fast things can change. I am even scared to type these words incase I jinx things. I haven't told a single sole that we tried again and got BFP. I am absolutely shitting myself and trying to prepare for the worst.
We went through a very bad time last year, in terms of unexpected bereavements in both our families and I am running out of strength to be able to pick myself back up again.
Our first cycle in May was a fresh transfer, this time we done a natural FET. Only positive I am hanging onto is we have 3 Frosties left.
I've convinced myself that my nausea is simply because I am worrying myself sick, then if I feel OK I am convinced it's all over. Those woman who get BFPs, post it on facebook straight away and already have baby names are bonkers!!!

Hope everyone has done something enjoyable this weekend. Anyone else wishing they could fast forward through Xmas?

blue hope your GP appointment went well and you don't have to wait long to be seen at the EPU.

Congratulations Pebbles. Absolutely understand the scanxiety too. There's a Pregnancy After Infertility thread, I'm not sure if you've been over there? We are in the same boat.

Fuzzy anniversaries are tough. Just realised that my due date (IF we get that far) will be the same week as the anniversary of Jovan's funeral. How are you finding the drugs? Are you down regging on a long protocol?

I am waiting for my referrals to come through, I'll give it a couple more days before harassing them for appointments - I'm actually going to be seen by the EPU and Pre-Term Clinic, hopefully before Christmas if they are planning to place the stitch in January, if I get there.

Another vote to fast forward through Christmas this year

Hope they get you seen quickly Blue. After what happened with Jovan it's going to be so hard to enjoy pregnancy and approach it with the innocence of someone who hasn't known loss. I think if I ever get pregnant I won't believe it's all going to be ok until they're past the age that Billy-Joe was when he died.

Congrats Pebbles. Wishing you all the very best. Like you, I don't mind the jabs at all. At least you feel like you're doing something in your control.

I'm not down regging - it's called hormone priming. It's basically an HRT drug to boost how receptive my ovaries are to the stims. I take them for 21 days, and then start stims when my withdrawal bleed starts. Last time I had 11 mature follicles but a couple raced ahead & were too big. They only got 6 eggs & 3 were immature. This can (not always though) help to even up the follicle growth. It's our last ditch attempt with my own eggs. I'm also starting on the max dose of stims this time.

Here's a link which explains the theory behind hormone priming...

www.center4fertility.com/blog/2013/07/22/ask-dr-marc-what-is-131990

Congratulations pebbles, wishing you all the very best. It's such a frightening time. Unfortunately I did have the nightmare scenario - at my scan last week they couldn't find a heartbeat.

...sorry, posted too soon.

...but I would say that it really isn't common and the odds are in your favour - wishing you lots of luck. Would also echo that pregnancy after inferility is a good place to share worries - I found it hugely supportive in the two months I managed to be pregnant.

I guess I'm back in the mindnumbing infertility gang after what now feels like a weird bad dream - managed to get to 10.5 weeks pregnant and then it was all over. Not sure how I feel at the moment. A bit dead inside and also not sure if I can find the strength to cycle again but will have to.

fuzzy, what are the reasons for doing hormone priming? I don't know much about that approach as I've been long protocol both times. So sorry that you have another sad Christmas ahead. It's a tough time of year. I can't imagine how hard it must be. This year we were hoping to be telling family our good news and instead we'll have to plaster on a brave face and get on with things.

Hope time passes quickly until your scan blue, I've never known time to go so slowly.

Waves to banana.

Hello all, how is everyone today?

tiger sending you love and hugs, so sorry to hear that. Are you able to take some time off? I hear you re finding the strength to go on, that is how I feel just now. Every day seems a huge battle, and as others have said Christmas seems to make it all the harder.

sara how are you doing

Congratulations blue and pebbles.

fuzzy I have been thinking of you.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

It is maybe just me but there seems to have been some mental threads on here of late. I seriously wonder if some people have actual real stuff to worry about. Christmas mania gone mad.

I have started my copper detox and am feeling ok. Massive supplement dose every day. It is the water supply so we have had filters fitted etc.

Had yet another blow out with the clinic. . Some of you may remember I am meant to get two cycles of IVF on the nhs. As of 1st January people get 3. That does not include me because I am already in the system. (still with me.....) However, I am not getting my last cycle because as of 1st January you only get one cycle if you do not reach egg collection. I have on this occasion had enough of their fuckery so have fired off an appeal. I am either 2017 person or I am 2016 person. You cannot possibly pick and chose the policies to suit. It probably won't go anywhere but (and I am screeching here) its the principle!!! I am not even sure I want another cycle with these people but I just want to argue with the stupidity of it.

Tiger I'm so sorry for your loss It is shit being on the wrong side of the odds. Do they have any idea why it happened? Just in case there is anything to be aware of next time? Take your time to recover and don't be too hard on yourself. I had to wait for at least 2 'spontaneous bleeds' before I could cycle again, i.e. minimum 3 months. I don't know if it'll be the same for you, but I found it a good amount of time to recover physically, emotionally and mentally. Be gentle with yourself.

Fuzzy I've never come across hormone priming but I can see why you are doing it. Hope it goes well. I also have an issue with large proportion of immature eggs so I'll watch with interest.

Bloody hell four. That's shit.

Met my consultant for the debrief yesterday. She was very thorough and is also likely to be leaving the current clinic to go to the big new shiny care facility that's opening in the spring. We've decided to go back to basics and repeat my bloods but also to take me back for a good look at my insides again (last lap was in 2011) so plan is for a hysteroscopy and lap and dye in Feb. Luckily can get this done on the NHS as she does both and can justify becuase of my endo. So plan will be to treat any endo and look at tubes in more details. Depending on findings will determine what type of protocol we do. She's keen to try to do long for me again despite my failure to dr last time becuase she feels the quality of my eggs was better with long than short but if the endo is shit then might need prostap. So back on the bench but cheering you on from the sidelines.

Fourpaws well done for standing up to your clinic, hope the appeal goes your way. Glad your copper detox is underway - but if it is in the water supply, had this issue not affected anyone else? How is it not a known issue?!

four your clinic are outrageous. I would be tempted to share your story with fertility groups like the fertility network to see if they can offer you any advice. What utter bastards. Picking and choosing parts of two different policies cannot be allowed.

Thanks blue. I don't think that they will look into it blue. Apparently they examine what they find but no idea how they give that feedback. Also as it is only my second loss they won't refer me for any investigations. There was nothing obviously wrong on the final scan - no bleeding or any areas of concern, growth was spot on, heartbeat as it should be on the first two scans.

I've had a few days off, but I'm back at work today. Being at home on my own was a worse prospect that being at work.

bean we might have to have a clinic chat at some point - I need to decide where to go next.

blue we do not really know. Nobody else has been tested yet because they do not have any issues. Only family use supply and SIL has 2 older DC. We had a new system put in since they were born so could be a more recent thing. They test water for lead as routine but not copper. I also have almost zero zinc so it could be an imbalance in me anyway, being aggravated by the water. DH keeps comparing it to sheep [embarrassed]. So with them, some are mineral deficient in certain areas and not others, then we regroup them and supplement accordingly. Sometimes one flock can have mixed results so it can be down to how they are processing the water and grazing. To be honest it could be another wild goose chase but the level is SO high is do want to get rid of it. For health sake if nothing else.