The mind numbing boredom of infertility IV

[PotatoesPastaAndBread]

Yes it's the return of the thread where we're so fucking bored of being infertile and talking about infertility and thinking about infertility and worrying and infertility and learning about infertility treatment and explaining infertility to other people and making up lies to cover up for going for infertility tests and treatment that we can't even be bothered to think of a better name for the thread.

Join us if you are barren, bored and bitter, or any combination of the above. We'll listen to your tails of woe when everyone you've ever met upduffs in an instant, accompany you through the trials of tests and treatment and commiserate the inevitable setbacks and disappointments.

Welcome to the ghetto.

When I can work out links, I'll post linnks to threads 1, 2 and 3

Hi all!

On day 9 of short cycle IVF, and struggling with keeping up the PMA.

We had a scan on day 7 and I had 11 follies ranging in size from 7-15. Went back today, and she only counted 9 that were 'viable', the others being under 8mm. I have 8 ranging from 11-17mm, and one whopping one which is 23mm which the nurse said will be overripe by the time the others have caught up. They've asked me to keep stimming until another scan on weds.

I naively assumed that my folly numbers would go up, not down. With the dominant follicle a 'bust', that puts me down to 8, 2 of which are only 11mm and may not be big enough to produce a mature egg by EC day.

I know it's my first cycle, and I was psyched up for this to be a 'trial run' with the next cycle far more likely to go well. But I guess a little bit of me was hoping that it would go well.

Can anyone give me a pep-talk (or tell me to get a grip!!!) xx

Hi fuzzy, 8 is a good number, and they still have longer to grow. Don't forget that it only takes one!

If you're having IVF (rather than ICSI), I believe that they can still work with immature eggs.

Fuzzy - just to say in my first cycle I got 14 eggs but only 1 blastocyst and a bfn. Others had far fewer eggs and more success. Quality plus lots of luck seems key. The cliche, you only need one good egg is trite but true!

Forgot to say had meeting at clinic today thought would have to wait till Jan for second cycle when nurse said I can start next week. Yay! So glad to be getting moving again. Oh god though the pangs of hope and mild hysteria already starting.

Thanks folks. It's all such a waiting game, isn't it? I'm having IVF for recurrent mc, rather than conception problems, so egg quality is definitely an issue. I was hoping for a good crop to see if at least one would get to PGS, but with my underwhelming amount of follies, I think I've got bob hope!

Good luck, Sara! Here's to your next cycle Hope it's the one that brings you your little bub xx

Day 9 still early fuzzy, plenty of time for the tiddlers to catch up. I seemed to find IVF a constant cycle of hope, and then
disappointment. But the 'perfect' cycles are not the ones that produce babies any more than those that seem to be going less well. Hang in there.

Glad you can get started sara. The pangs of hope and hysteria - yup that's where I'm at right now. Good luck!

Hope you're ok banana and the new job is still going well.

bean hoping the cyst is disappearing as we speak!

This week is dragging. Could time go any more slowly?!

Evening ladies, just going to read back and catch up properly.

I miscarried overnight and had it confirmed today at hospital. Unnecessary in my view but they insisted. To add to the torture she tried to take blood via a nerve in my arm, that was sore. I'm a little numb but ok. Had to work today and probably till Thursday but trying to get Friday at home to chill. Will catch up then if not before. Thinking of you all.

Oh four I'm so sorry to hear that.

Oh Four I'm so sorry re your comment further up the thread about wishing sometimes we could all meet in real life - I feel like that too, but I suppose an unmumsnetty hug in your direction will have to do.

My dog ate the zip off my brand new winter coat today. I wasn't in the mood for my yoga class so went to my parents instead and ended up having a massive row with my mother I'm not even sure what about. Should have just gone to bloody yoga.

So sorry fourpawswhite

I'm so sorry fourpaws. Look after yourself

fourpaws I’m so, so, so sorry. Thinking of you and DH, absolutely gutted for you both

Have you already had investigations at a recurrent miscarriage clinic? I don’t know how joined up the RMC is with your IVF unit, but obvs hope they can fast track any investigations you’ve not already had. Hope you can be kind to yourselves

Day 9 def still early fuzzy - hope the tiddlers get jealous and decide to join the party

Q about having IVF for recurrent miscarriage, have you had all the RPL investigations as well? Have all other causes for your mc (other than the usual ‘old eggs’ line) been ruled out? I say this as someone who’s lost 2 genetically perfect embryos - I had all the investigations and we know my issue is the endometrium, but my Dr treats empirically with pred / intralipids / clexane / extra progesterone for unexplained or recurrent miscarriage. Really hope that it’s ‘just’ bad luck and a PGS normal does the trick!

Sara so glad things are moving!

Blue hope that the event on Sat was supportive, was thinking of you all when I lit our candle

bean begone, cyst, begone!!

Thinking of you tiger

Got an invite for a routine smear - it’s been a whole 2 weeks since my cervix has been prodded, clearly it was feeling unloved. Have convinced myself it will come back abnormal, because obvs what else could go wrong etc

We have 5 euploid blasts left, and have mentally set a limit of 2 more before we accept we’re flogging a dead horse with my body and accept that I can’t carry. If we are 2 more transfers down and no baby, then that’ll have been 4 genetically normal embryos we’ll have lost. If I can’t sustain a pregnancy, it would be folly to keep ‘wasting’ perfect embryos, so after two more I think we would have to call it quits and explore surrogacy. We’d have 3 normals left, that have the potential to become people - but if my uterus isn’t up to the job, our best chance of becoming parents would be to transfer into someone else’s

I’ve been contacting US clinics, and the consensus is that FDA regulations would permit us to import frozen embryos from the UK for transfer into a gestational carrier. So two more into me, then with a heavy heart it would be following a different path.

I really really hope it doesn’t come to that. Breaks my heart to even think about it - but if it’s our only chance to have a baby, we’re shit outta options…

I'm so sorry fourpaws. It's just so bloody fair. Hope you can get some time at home to recuperate. Also hope you can get some answers soon too.

That's a tough decision to have to make banana. I'm crossing everything that this protocol does the business. You really don't deserve any more heartache.

I'm being plagued by insomnia. Awake at 4am every day for almost a week. I'm in a hotel at the moment, and some fucker has had their TV blaring all night. Possibly the same person snoring like a stuck pig. They would be fearing for their lives if they realised how close I am to murdering them in their beds! Today is going to be a looooong day. Can't even make the most of being awake early and go swimming like I usually do, as it's forbidden in the 2ww.

I'm so sorry four paws. Life can be really shit sometimes. I hope you can start to get answers to why this is happening.

Thank you banana for your encouragement as well. I'm scared about starting IVF but I've come to realise that we need it if we're going to have a chance but also a discover if there is a problem as well.

I met up with my friend yesterday, who had 3 miscarriages and after 3 rounds of IVF gave birth to twins (one of which is my God son). She'd thought her third round hadn't work and was abroad knocking back cocktails during her tww. She said that a lot of it is really down to luck.

Hi all!

How are you today Fourpaws? Thinking of you.

Banana I'm having ivf for recurrent mc. They've tested my thyroid & lupus antibodies (sticky blood). My lining is ok & during my last missed mc my progesterone was at 25, which is consistent with a healthy preg rather than mc, so I don't think they have plans to investigate further. They had a good look on the first scan to check for anything structural. I have carried a child to term, so I don't think they have concerns about that. They seem convinced that it's a 'decrepit egg' issue.

I will do literally anything to be a parent again, so I have no hesitation in using donor eggs or surrogacy if needs be. I had morning sickness & severe SPD when I carried my son, so there's actually quite an appeal there. I wish you all the very best whatever happens. Truth is, once your baby is in your arms, you won't give a rats backside how they got there. You'll just be totally in love.

AFM, retrieval booked for Friday! Back up to 10 viable follies around the 15-19mm range, plus one mothership that will probably be overripe (now 25mm). Better than I thought

Fourpaws I am so sorry to hear that. What a terrible experience for you and Mr fourpaws. Then going straight back to work god you must be shattered. I know we stress over work and worry about being judged, getting behind etc but you must put yourself first. I think at the least, you need rest of week off. Hugs. X

Thank you all for your kind words.

I thought I was doing ok but I don't think I am. I lost my shit about something really stupid yesterday. I think we all know it was not about that but the mc. I tend to need to carry on but then because I don't process what happened I turn into a bitch trog.

Someone unexpected sent me details to a hair mineral analysis for fertility. I have tried just about everything else so am doing that now. You send your hair sample away and they analyse it and tell you if your body is missing anything vital. The reviews are full of people saying they had mcs with no explanation, then did this and something clicked. Probably a load of nonsense but I like to have something to focus into. Not here's obviously something wrong with me somewhere so seemed like s good place to start. Had anyone else tried it?

Wonderful news about the follies mrfuzzy! Everything crossed for a bountiful crop of eggs on Friday.

It’s so interesting you say that you have a little boy (successfully carried to term), as the 5 women I know IRL who have / had recurrent miscarriage all had successful pregnancies with their first born, but when TTC for a sibling conceive easily, but can’t stay pregnant, and have lost pregnancy after pregnancy. All 5 had little boys as their first born, all 5 have found the cause of their RM to be immunes causes - 3 of them have successfully delivered babies after finally getting the right treatment (the other 2 are having treatment - all TTC naturally with immunes support). Dr Beer says in his book that he observed that the women with the most severe RM are those with secondary infertility (incl staying as well as getting pregnant) - whereby the first pregnancy sets off an immunes reaction that causes the body to reject subsequent pregnancies as ‘other’. Research came out a little while back which suggested a higher rate of secondary RM amongst women who’d had baby boys in a first pregnancy, whereby the male foetus set off a particularly strong immunological reaction

All 5 of my friends went to the NHS RMC and were told there was nothing wrong with them, it was just bad luck, because all the tests (thyroid, sticky blood etc) were all clear - just keep trying. They kept miscarrying. Fed up and at the end of their rope, they went private and 3 of them have now delivered healthy babies after getting immunes support. I know immunes is controversial and the NHS doesn’t ‘believe’ in it. But my heart aches for the babies my friends lost - probably unnecessarily - until they got the right treatment.

fourpaws I guess the above would also be relevant for you - I don’t know about mineral analysis for RM, but many women have had successful pregnancies after going to the Coventry clinic for their endometrial biopsy test (self referral for £360 - details in the recurrent miscarriage thread in Miscarriage & pregnancy loss)?

Hugs to you both

Fourpaws I personally think it's healthy to lose your shit at a time like this. As someone well-versed in grief, I find that trying to 'ignore' it means that it just comes out in all sorts of other ways. I know it doesn't feel good at the time, but grief can become very toxic if you trap it.

Thanks for the info, Banana. Interesting about your friends. Sadly my son died at 13 months, but until the day he died he was a very robust little boy, so I know he didn't have anything genetically wrong with him. I've wondered if the problem is with me. We are now having IVF with PGS, so if we have any viable embryos left to transfer and I go on to miscarry a PGS normal embryo, I'm sure my clinic will want to investigate further. The feeling at the moment is that I just need a good embryo and my body should be able to carry it. I will definitely discuss this with the consultant before transfer though. Did they have blood tests to diagnose? Any idea what specifically I'd be asking for?

Fourpaws sounds like you could do with some to yourself, is that possible?

I did a nutritional analysis, though with blood tests rather than hair but the place I went to does both. I was concerned about conception rather than recurrent mc. It was after a failed cycle with no blastocysts so I wanted to know if there was something wrong. I found I had deficiencies in zinc, vitamin D & D3, omega 3 and iodine, DH also had some deficiencies, so we took supplements for 3 months before next EC. Zinc in particular plays a part in conception and pregnancy. I believe the supplements helped because a) DH sperm analysis results were vastly improved (count and motility definitely, can't remember about morphology) and b) I got pregnant on that cycle. It was expensive but I'm glad we did it. Could it be coincidence/nonsense? Perhaps, but a lot in this fertility game is currently new/unproven/untested.

Banana very interesting. You're a fountain of knowledge as always!

Mr Fuzzy good luck with EC tomorrow

fuzzy Apols I wasn't clear - my friends didn't have a genetic issue, their little boys are all genetically normal, they kept miscarrying healthy babies (the assumption is that some losses may have been chromosomal, but tissue testing showed that they had all miscarried at least one genetically normal embryo)

So the problem was with their bodies, not the embryos - my issue is slightly different, but I've miscarried two genetically normal embryos, so unless we can crack my issue, I will keep losing PGS normals

Only a few clinics / Drs in the UK do the full immunes testing (CARE, Zita West, ARGC, Dr Gorgy, Mr Shehata and Prof Brosens and Quenby at the Coventry clinic) but many I'm is will treat empirically for immunes without the testing. My consultant doesn't find the testing reliable but prescribes empirically for patients with recurrent miscarriage or implantation failure, with prednisolone, intralipids, clexane and aspirin.

Although my issue isn't immunes, it's with the endometrium, so the immunes meds don't fix my issue - I lost genetically normal embryos both with and without immunes tx

Thanks for clarifying Banana. My fault - I misread your post. So, I've consulted with Dr Google (for the millionth time this week ) - are we talking about NK cells? My RMC tests for lupus antibodies. Is that the same thing? There seems to be a lot of crossover and confusion among the things I've read. Or maybe I'm just easily confused ATM!!!

I was similar after my MC. Thought I was fine until I burst into tears at work. Please give yourself time to grieve.
Afm Cyst has gone! Now to stop the pill and wait to bleed. If scan still clear then will be starting short protocol. Daren't get to excited as it could still go wrong. And even starting means nothing if again we get no embryos.

Bean - glad the cyst has gone and you can get on with your cycle.

Fuzzy - also good news that your follicles have picked up. Good luck for your retrieval.

I've just had DH on the phone with his latest semen analysis results. Morphology has gone back down to 0%. Bugger. For his first ever count about 2 years ago it was 5%, he's had a couple at 3% and 2 at 0%. His count was 7 million. Although we had already admitted defeat and plan for IVF in January, I had been hoping that the treatment for hidden infections may have worked a miracle.

Had anyone ever heard (Banana I'm looking at you with your fountain of knowledge!) if sperm counts could go down with the addition of supplements etc? DH's first analysis was 14million, morphology 5% - with the addition of proxeed and all other vitamins his counts have only progressively worsened. I mean wtaf has gone wrong?! We have our 5 year old son so he's done it before... or have his counts been this bad all along and it's deflecting from something wrong with me they haven't found?! Sorry mini meltdown over here...!