Another selfish bastard kills himself - and his two dcs as well, to spite his wife

[Moomin]

How utterly utterly heartrending.

edam- you are making sense to me.
I think it takes a certain kind of bullying control freak to this kind of thing.

.. and if the act of setting his house alight wasn't pre-meditated, then I don't know what was. He'd already killed his son. Any coroner would quickly established that the poor boy was already dead prior to the blaze.

The only possible reason he would torch the house was to deny his ex-wife the proceeds from the sale of the property.

Evil, evil bastard.

I can understand the theory behind Fathers for Justice. The courts are very biased towards the mothers, and not always rightly. I do have sympathy for those fathers who would like to see their kids more but are denied that. My dh's brother has been through the mill with that, having his wife tell their kids that he's a bad dad, rubbish and no good and not to listen to him or she'll smack them.

However the group as it stands today are doing far more damage than good. Any reasonable points they had to make have been surely lost now in hate and anger. And after cases like this one, what court is going to change things now?

Sadly the courts have a habit of enforcing the access rights of violent men, even though there has been case after case where this has led to entirely avoidable tragedies. I doubt anything will change as a result.

Stupid isn't it? They allow access to violent men, yet perfectly good dads whose wives take no notice of any custody order, find that there is nothing they can do about it.

You'd think the whole point of a court would be to establish the facts of each individual case, wouldn't you? Whether Mr X is a wife-beating vindictive bastard who shouldn't be allowed within 100 miles of his children, or Mr Y is a fine dad who is being unreasonably prevented from seeing his brood.

Anyone who kills their children is a selfish bastard. End of.

Mental illness seems to be all too convenient an excuse to hide behind these days. Do something out of the ordinary? It?s ok, just plead mentally ill and you can get away with it, even murder it would seem.

I don?t get this whole ?we don?t know the whole story, let?s have compassion as he must have been mentally ill? attitude, really I don?t. Ian Huntley is mentally ill apparently, Peter Sutcliffe (Yorkshire ripper) is in broadmore so is obviously mentally ill, as is Ian Brady. And you can?t tell me that Harold Shipman was of sound mind when he killed all those people? So where are the calls of compassion for them? Where are the people telling us we just don?t know the whole story and we shouldn?t judge because mental illness is a terrible thing and we really don?t know what might have driven Ian Huntley to kill those two innocent children? Fact is there isn?t any, because most people just cannot comprehend how anyone could kill another human being in those circumstances. I don?t see how a father of two children is any different. He killed his children, not one, but two of them, by driving to a remote spot, putting the hosepipe in the car, turning on the engine, and allowing them all to die. It wasn?t an impulse action, it was a calculated move.

I refuse to have compassion for that.

I hope he burns in hell.

I'd say it's likely he had a personality disorder. Men like this often do, they don't see their children as human beings in their own right but rather as possessions or objects for them to control.

Ian huntley isnt mentally ill. He tried to pretend that he was but failed.

He is in a 'normal' prison.

It pisses me off when people 'pretend' to be mentally ill to get away with a crime.

totally agree with wannabe.

I started this thread as soon as I saw the report - the OP is a gut reaction. I like to think I'm not a torch-wielding pitchfork-carrier generally, but this just made my blood boil. It's a despicable crime.

I'm very sorry that NAB has chosen to leave. Like someone else said, she did apologise for what she had stated.

This is all ignorant speculation. None of you really knows anything about it. Who has said he must be mentally ill, let's give him compassion?

This is why I never usually join these threads.

I'm sorry but I just cannot find it in my heart to have compassion for someone who commits a crime like this. I cannot.

and not all of it is 'ignorant speculation'. Much of it is compassion shown for the mother.

I can't think of a news story that has wound me up so much (not the thread, the story). I hate the rage I'm feeling. But maybe it's what makes me human? I'd feel confused if I was able to sympathise with the father as an initial reaction.

Who's asking you to sympathise with him and show compassion?!

ITV news just stated that the father was a member of Fathers for Justice.

He killed his children. That's not speculation. It's fact.

I would hazard a guess that's what people find so horrific and distressing.

"Please let's not give them countenance on MN. Men who kill their kids becasue their ex partners won't let them see them are human filth, end of."

I don't entirely disagree with the sentiments but surely the man in question was able to kill his children because he was (legally)able to see them.

The first info I read about this today didn't have many details, but did go into detail about previous case - man who had killed his children (4 of them iirc, youngest 3 yrs) a little while ago by placing a (running) petrol lawnmower in the car.

This has filled me with horror all day. We have a petrol lawnmower and I know how much noise it makes and cannot bear to think about how frightened those children were and how long it must have taken them to die.

Poor innocent children, RIP all.

Sadly, for the first time in my life, I can understand what people mean when they say 'only a mother can understand'.

This is the first story of this kind I've read since having my son.

I honestly feel sick thinking about it.

not a father, cannot?

I think the sentiment that 'only a mother can understand' is a very dangerous one. It seems to assume that a mother is somehow more important, or has more rights, than a father.

I'm not going to go into the whys and wherefores.

Just to say that this story is breaking my heart more than any other right now. And there's been a few like this lately. I dont know why this one is bothering me so much more than others.

I feel so very desperately sad for how the children must have felt, and how their mother must be feeling. No-one deserves to go through this.

No-one.

Not much comfort at all I know but CM monoxide is supposed to be a 'painless' death, just like going to sleep. Hopefully that's true.

just seen this on the front pages

that poor woman

f4j bloke was on radio5 this morning.. per him the father in this case had just phoned to ask for "pastoral support" -what that means I don't know (I tuned out as f4j man then started spouting on about himself).

Whole story completely horrific

The NSPCC says..

"Killings of children by a natural parent are committed in roughly equal proportions by mothers (47%) and fathers (53%)"

Brookman and Maguire (2003) Reducing homicide: a review of the possibilities