Another selfish bastard kills himself - and his two dcs as well, to spite his wife

[Moomin]

How utterly utterly heartrending.

Saying that it is 'fucking nasty' for someone to have a different opinion to the one you hold yourself is pretty abusive in my book. Maybe you don't agree though, and think it's an ok way to behave. There's intelligent debate, and there's flinging insults. I really can't be bothered with the latter.

"Any woman who has two abusive relationships only has herself to blame!"

That is a very stupid comment.

findtheriver-youre a woman?

imaparenttoo-in what way ?do you think women who have abusive relationships go out and intentionally find violent bastards?

i suppose you two also think that women who wear revealing clothing only have themselves to blame if they get raped.

no,its fucking nasty for somebody to say that women deserve to be abused by their oh's.thats not an opinion,its an outdated nasty attitude!

i'm sorry,but saying somebody 'allows' themselves to be abused is the same as saying they deserve it,and shifts responsibility from the abuser.which is great for all the abusers out there who already dont accept their behaviour is wrong.

gosh wouldn't life be simple if we all accepted that vulnerable women "only have themselves to blame" so bullies and Imaparenttoo would continue to victim blame and perpetrate the myth that vulnerable and abused women somehow invite their dreadful treatment

do you think any woman asks for a fist in the face?
do you think any woman wants mental cruelty and psychological torment?

maybe try consider what an immobilising fear and psychological trauma living in an abusive relationship causes

a fear that diminishes volition, self confidence, self belief.
some scars don't show

interesting opinion in the DM

absolutly disgusting. if ou dont wanna live kill yourself why hurt your babys, i get horible thought of the poor babys .

All I can add at this stage is that my abusive ex partner, before we had split up entirely, and on being asked by myself what he thought of women who stayed with abusive partners, came out with this little gem: 'It's their own fault, for not leaving'.

I left very quickly after that.

I think the fathers for justice connection is irrelevent. I also think we are sometimes too quick to play the mental illness card in order to excuse someone's extreme and disgraceful behaviour. On reading the The Times article its apparent that his actions were planned. A fake bomb (a decoy), threatening his wife and then a double murder and suicide in an isolated place. It doesnt sound like the actions of someone who was mentally ill, it suggests someone of a deeply controlling nature who planned very much to this

"woman jumping off a bridge with her child," I'm not familiar with all the cases findtheriver mentions. I am with the one above. The child in that case was autistic and the mother was absolutely desperate at the lack of services and saw the future as hopeless. She did it out of desperation for her child, not to get one over her ex partner.

God, I agree with Carol Sarler too.

Here's what you do when you are in despair: kill yourself.

Here's what you do when you are a manipulative, vengeful bully: kill your children.

The woman jumping off the bridge killed her son too because there was no one else to look after him. Not excusing her but she wasn't seeking vengence.

It's base and vile. If Fathers for Justice don't understand that they need to distance themselves from this sort of thing as fast as they can, then they are exposed as the reactionary bunch of women-hating losers that I suspect them of being.

I'm sure there are elements of family law that need to be addressed btw, but Fathers for Justice are sure as hell not the right way to address them.

Whoever said it's like terrorism is damn right. Agree with me or I blow us all up.

My XH tried to stop me from seeing DD - we then went to court to fight for her best interests - well I did he was just being nasty and vindictive to get at me not thinking about DDs welfare - at no point did I think about killing her - I thought plenty about killing myself but what would that have accomplished and it would have made DDs life harder not easier.

This man was a bastard - pure and simple - he was pushed over the edge because the courts were going to make him move out of his house so his wife could move back in with the two little angels that were his and the son who he beat mercillesley (sp?) - he did this because of a house and his financial situation - he wasn't denied access top his children at all - god I wish to god now he had of been and this wouldn't have happened.

To lay any blame at the door of the poor grieving mother is cruel and callous.

One abusive relationship is unfortunate, two is failing to take responsibilty and failing to learn from mistakes and enabling the abuser (esp when children are involved)

as humans we act upon many powerful unconscious and conscious emotions not all within our control. your approach is reductionist and callous

do you think life and psychiatry would be such ethical difficult choices if we all had an innate propensity to learn after two negative events

you continue to victim blame. knee jerk and badly thought out

Well, I would agree with you wholeheatedly on that SM. But I think there have been some reductionist arguments on here regarding the reasons why these tragic events occur as well.

imaparenttoo I have to say your posts are vile and reveal a depth of ignorance for which there really is no excuse nowadays. There are libraries, there is the internet, there are books - please do some research about Domestic Violence before you come on to one of the most intelligent sites on the internet and talk bollocks.

Imaparenttoo, just shut up please. Shut up. You are talking unimaginable crap.

I've just arrived back on this and surprise surprise nothing much changes lol.

'its fucking nasty for somebody to say that women deserve to be abused by their oh's.thats not an opinion,its an outdated nasty attitude! '

• well if you can find any post where I've said anyone deserves to be abused then go ahead and quote it. Thought not.

Sadly there are a few people on here who get off on misquoting other people. Maybe it's to do with their own hang ups; I don't know. I do NOT believe that anyone 'deserves' abuse. What I have said is that some people ALLOW abuse, which is a fact - there have been numerouc cases where women continue to expose their children to abusive relationships, or where women are being abused but normalise the behaviour (hence the threads asking'is this abuse?' on MN}. Allowing and deserving have different meanings. Of course, if you are just coming on this thread to rant and rave about how all men are monsters and all women are perfect then I wouldnt expect you to understand that. And divastrop, strange comment you make that maybe women who wear revealing clothing deserve to be raped. No, I don't beleive that. I never mentioned revealing clothing or rape. You did. Speak for yourself.

findtheriver, the question is not 'why doesn't she leave' but 'why doesn't he stop'. Because violent men know full well that what they are doing is wrong - they just choose to do it anyway.

This is a thread about how a man killed his children and then himself. And threatened his ex wife and her son with bombs. It would be a bit odd if it was about how women are sometimes their own worst enemies. You have absolutely no information (unless you know something that I don't) to suggest that this woman did anything other than flee for her life and take her children with her. And then he killed them.

And I fail to see why you keep banging on about women who 'allow' abuse when you have said that it is a minority of women who are abused who you feel are in this position. Why aren't you talking about the majority who you presumably agree aren't allowing it at all?

Incidentally, I think it's very dangerous for any woman to look at an abused woman and think 'it would never happen to me'.