Death of Emma Pattison and daughter

[MajesticWhine]

Are we allowed to talk about this now?
Last thread was deleted. But surprise surprise - now confirmed as a murder suicide

Epsom College deaths believed to be murder-suicide https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64544884

Why do men do this?

‘Its key predictor is domestic violence or abuse‘

Yy. And this is why it’s so wrong to just say, ‘oh how tragic, he must have had mental health problems.’

I'm sorry

Just imagine what Emma went through before all of this. Perhaps the reason she called a relative and not the police was because she just could not have the police involved given her job. If there was DV beforehand, she must have been exhausted dealing with it and keeping her DD safe.

RIP Emma and Lettie x

I know people who knew her. This doesnt come out of nowhere and isnt a psychotic break or schizoprenia. He had form for being controlling and cruel. His ego was injured by her success and everyone congratulating her. Inadequate, narcissist man couldn't deal. It's as simple as that.

My youngest son is in year 7 and met Emma a few times last year through school. He keeps saying she was such a nice lady. He said to me this morning, when I asked him how he was feeling, that he was feeling weird because she is the first person he knew that was murdered, and she was so nice. I've had to have that conversation with a 12 year old. Everyone is talking about it at my older son's school as many have sisters at her old school. He asked me this evening if there had been some mistake with what everyone was saying as surely he coudln't have shot his little girl. I've had to have that converstion with a 14 year old. Evil, evil man. Erased her and her little girl from a community where she was popular and valuable, because he was jealous.

why - WHY - is it inconceivable to people that some people are narcissistic and cruel?

Because that's actually more frightening. We grow up with fairy tales that have a wicked witch or a wolf, we watch films with monsters, we are fed a diet of dangerous people being scary and identifiable.

What is FAR more frightening, to an intolerable degree, is that the dangerous people look just like us, like our friends, like our doctors (or policemen). That they look entirely not scary. Because then how do we live knowing that actually we can't trust anybody?

Many victims of abuse know this tension only too well.

Apparently he reported his wife to the police for slapping him six years ago, then quickly withdrew it .Very odd.

This is plausible from what we know about male violence against women- the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the woman makes it clear she is leaving (pregnancy I believe is the second most dangerous).

I think there are historical,societal, and biological reasons for why men kill women and I do believe that deep down all men have some level of misogyny - they all stand to lose too much if the patriarchy fails.

Yes and the vilian in fairy tales is always a woman, wicked witch, evil step mother, ugly sisters. The male characters are always the hero to rescue and protect the feeble women.

How did that happen? Wishful thinking? A dream that it might be true or deliberate manipulation?

But not unusual among dv perpetrators I think, to make counter accusations to muddy the waters, make her less credible and mess with her head.

The police specifically said the family weren't known to them?

I wonder if he was the one doing the slapping but thought by reporting her it would stop her reporting him. Who knows?

Men are capable of killing whilst of sound mind. Women are too, but it is much rarer.
Assuming he was mentally ill of a way of minimising his crime. I understand the desire to do that, because it makes the world a less scary place, but the fact is that (some) men kill their female partners/ex partners, and some of those men are perfectly capable of killing their own children too.

And yes it is a well known tactic of abusers to publicly accuse their partner of DA. It's a means of control.

Why couldn't he have just killed himself? It's agonising to think of what they must have gone through in their terrifying last moments. Who can do that to their child? A 7 year old little girl. It doesn't matter if you live on a council estate or on the grounds of highly regarded independent school, there are evil men no matter their background.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel , yes. I have a friend whose controlling, abusive husband is a respected member of the town council. During an argument, she tried to push past him to leave. He called the police and accused her of assault, leading to her arrest in front of her 2 young daughters and necessitating her only being allowed to see them under supervised conditions for a number of weeks. Most of the people in his town think he is a progressive and compassionate family man, doing his best despite his unstable wife and his valiant effort to get custody of his daughters. It's revolting.

@SoupDragon what have I made up? I've just said it could be a bunch of possibilities and called you and others out for assuming it's him being nothing more than a cunt

I suspect the poor woman didn't phone the police but a relative instead to avoid any embarrassment or scandal, given she was only in her new prestigious job for a few months. I can't imagine the turmoil and terror she was in.

why - WHY - is it inconceivable to people that some people are narcissistic and cruel?
Oh no I am COMPLETELY aware that there are narcissistic cruel people out there. I just choose not to swoop in on a story where all facts are not out and start accusing people I don't know if being things.

Just another internally weak, malevolent little shit who couldn't get his own way. It's a tantrum, a scribbling over another child's picture because theirs was better, a spiteful comment on a special occasion for somebody else - pure rage at the prospect of somebody not just being better than them in every way, but of daring to exist whilst being better and not making him, the great wielder of the mighty penis, feel that he is truly a fucking living god on Earth.

This isn't about being kind and absolving men of all responsibility for their own disgusting deeds, it's about the MEN who are vile in their pursuit and feelings of entitlement to female time, attention, validation, bodies, minds and souls and whom rage with their fists and their words and their weapons when they don't get their own way.

I'm judging him based on the fact that I do know.

He murdered his wife and child.

Imagine getting that call from her in the middle of the night and getting there and it's too late. Absolutely traumatising.

This is an horrendous crime and there are no excuses for behaviour in what looks like a classic example of DV, male entitlement and sadly an all too predictable script.

Can I ask though (without diminishing any of the above) - would this be spoken about so much (in news and social media - and on MN obviously) were the family from a less affluent background. Is that part of the shock?

I saw the deleted thread when it popped up and searched the picture. I couldn't stop looking at his face, it looked evil. I shook my head and tried to not think about it but I kept thinking I think he did it. At that point nobody knew anything about it. I hoped I was wrong. So sad 😔

Yes my husband said - "your minds dark, it's more likely an accident" He also thinks I'm overreacting by locking the doors when I'm home. I once read somewhere that 'men lock doors to stop people from taking their stuff and women lock doors to stop people from taking them. '

It's just awful, one thing I don't understand, this man was allowed to keep his guns, in a school??

Yes and why does anyone other than a farmer need a gun? A chartered accountant. In a school. Macho crap.