Death of Emma Pattison and daughter

[MajesticWhine]

Are we allowed to talk about this now?
Last thread was deleted. But surprise surprise - now confirmed as a murder suicide

Epsom College deaths believed to be murder-suicide https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64544884

Why do men do this?

I meant prior to that event.

So you don’t think that committing a very serious act of domestic violence is any kind of an indicator that there will have been smaller ones already?
Men rarely commit serious violence out of nowhere. They start with smaller acts and escalate as they continue to get away with it. I thought this was well known.

We don’t know that though so we? It’s guesswork.

The details have already emerged, he murdered his wife and child. What more clear evidence of domestic violence are you looking for?

I can’t work out if you’re being deliberately goady or just very naive. Have you read any of the eloquent but harrowing posts on this thread which explain actual lived experience of women who have survived this to share their stories? The common theme is the need for the man to have control.

I understand completely why it’s very likely that he was controlling and abusive. Just saying we don’t know that for a fact.. yet. I’m sure it will come out. I’m not making excuses for him. What he did is absolutely horrific and sickening.

@journeyofinsanity

He obviously didn't have mental health or he wouldn't have a GUN license.

I've changed names for this but this is exactly the reason i didn't leave my husband after he cheated on me. He is not a violent man but that obsessive compulsive nature is there. We managed to work through things but i think some people when out of control do horrific things. Sadly many men do hurt and kill their families. More still just kill themselves which is also a terrible situation for their children.

Many many women will be in the same situation as me as when i explained my reasoning many of my friends thought it too about their own husbands.

Jesus wept! 🙇‍♀️

Here we go
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11732877/Epsom-College-head-talked-exciting-future-interview-published-six-days-death.html#newcomment

Not a conclusion that I would make. Many people with MH problems do not seek medical help.

The vetting for gun licences leaves a lot to be desired.

Amazed at how for some losing control is equivalent to get a good shouting to your wife, go an retrieve a weapon, kill her, kill the couples little girl and kill himself!

to me that is lots of controlled decisions in succession.

Narcissistic, crazy and cruel but within the range of rationality.

To the person who says she's got a niece in the College: doesn't the College take any responsibility for their selection of this woman and her partner? Aren't partners assessed as suitable "material" (in these old colleges both - and the perennial dog - have to play "happy family" for all and sundry). Also (already said elsewhere) she called her sister, not the cops, possibly not wanting it to look bad for the school - god knows how many other instances of "saving face/appearances" must have been incurred. To have to live in college premises is just so limiting, no matter how nice the house is. Students have to go through tests (including psychometric?) to be accepted by boarding schools. What about personnel? Ironically these colleges seem to choose "families" as single persons are considered (perhaps) less resilient.

That’s an interesting point; I don’t know if it’s fair or not to this particular institution but maybe any organisation, whether school or church, for example, that appoints staff with a view to their family life should be asking itself if they are putting staff in a potentially dangerous situation by making it hard for them to come forward if they are experiencing domestic violence, and considering what they can do to remedy that.

Spouses aren’t vetted, no. They ought to be though.

It is an interesting point about the partners of live in staff being vetted.

I work in state schools and no we don't check the caretaker's wife if they live on site. It sounds like he would have passed checks anyway though

However at one school we rented the old caretaker's house to young teachers and were severely criticised by Ofsted because we didn't know what visitors they were having on school grounds.

I does surprise me that you can get a license to keep a gun on school premises

I think that Governing Bodies and schools should look at introducing policies and procedures specifically for providing safe spaces, the identification of and procedures for handling occurrences of domestic abuse that affect staff, who may feel there isn't anywhere to turn that wouldn't lose them their job, home and entire livelihood if they disclose anything.

It is a national minimum standard in boarding schools for anybody aged over 16 that lives on site to have an enhanced DBS check, not that this prevents those who are 'better' at ensuring their victims do not report abuse.

'19.2 For all members of staff households who are aged 16 and over (not on the roll
of, nor employed by, the school) and who live on the same premises as boarders, an
Enhanced certificate with a check of the Children’s Barred List must be obtained from
the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS). For all other persons aged 16 and over,
not on the roll of, nor employed by the school, who live on the same premises as
boarders, an Enhanced certificate with a check of the Children’s Barred List must be
obtained. The same premises would include, for example, an abbey or teacher
housing on the same grounds as the school, requiring the use of the same entry and
exit points.

19.3 There is a written agreement between the school and any person aged 16 and
over not employed by the school but living in the same premises as children (for
example, members of staff households). This specifies the terms of their
accommodation, guidance and expectations on contact with pupils, their
responsibilities to supervise their visitors, and notice that accommodation may cease
to be provided if there is evidence that they are unsuitable to have regular contact
with children. They must be required to notify an unrelated designated senior
member of staff if they are charged with, or convicted of, any offence'

• but even those requirements are useless if the abuser has convinced the staff member that it'll cost them their livelihood or that nobody will ever believe them - or when the police have attended, they've failed to see or act on the signs.

That’s not the procedure in private schools, and they really need to be tightened up.

They're failing to comply with Statutory requirements, then, because that's taken direct from the .gov website.

I should reference my source, apologies;

Boarding schools: national minimum standards
The national minimum standards that boarding schools must meet to safeguard and protect the children in their care.

'It applies to:
boarding schools maintained by the local authority
independent boarding schools'

www.gov.uk/government/publications/boarding-schools-national-minimum-standards

I am talking about spouses , not staff generally.

"Mr Pattison, born in Jamaica to a [White] English father and a south-east Asian mother, was a graduate of Durham University who qualified as a chartered accountant in 2008 when he was 24 and working for Deloitte, but no longer held a certificate to practise. When he set up the wine business in 2012, he described himself as “a career accountant desperate to do something better with his days”.

Thanks. I wonder what his upbringing was like and where his parents are now. Does he have any siblings? No friends are coming out of the woodwork either. It’s strange. I wonder how the two of them met? Completely different types of job and very different personalities it seems. The photos of Emma are all with her daughter apart from official photos for her new job.

And so it emerges, what we all knew from the start

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11737871/Details-emerge-tensions-Epsom-College-head-husband-killed-daughter.html#comments

That article seems very sympathetic

I think the DM headline is bloody awful.
’Did living in the shadow of his high achieving wife lead to unthinkable tragedy? Details emerge of the tensions behind the picture perfect lives of the Epsom College head and her husband who 'killed her and their daughter before turning the gun on himself'’
As if her job is the only factor!
Don’t outearn your husbands, women, they might not be able to help killing you. 🙄