Page 3 | Death of Emma Pattison and daughter

MajesticWhine · 2023-02-07T11:24:04+00:00

Are we allowed to talk about this now? Last thread was deleted. But surprise surprise - now confirmed as a murder suicide Epsom College deaths believed to be murder-suicide [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64544884 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64544884]] Why do men do this?

3WildOnes · 07/02/2023 19:26

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:20

Why are people saying this is because he had a failed business? I can't see anything about this? He worked for a management consultancy firm. People seem to be making shit up then basing opinions in those made up 'facts'.

Men and women do this for a variety of reasons. Severe mental health episodes are complex. They often are in a state of such delusion by the time they reach this point that they believe they are doing everyone a favour. It's not rational that's the point.

It was reported in the press that his business (a management consultancy firm) had just £30 in reserves or similar.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2023 19:27

acrossthewaters · 07/02/2023 18:09

"Men's desire to be the provider also plays into it especially, when it involves the middle class. The number that ultimately come down to a failing business is shocking. The killer often seems to think their life is over as they wouldn't want to live a poorer lifestyle because they have failed and think the family is better off dead than poor."

My husbands father got into severe debt against the families home and business and knew he was about to lose the lot, so he killed himself and left my MIL bankrupt, homeless and with 4 kids under the age of 8 to raise by herself. I've always thought it was the most selfish thing he could do, and reading this it crossed my mind and I thought thank god he didn't kill them too. Then it occurred to me what an awful thing that is to think - what a sad world we live in.

I had a similar thought, I have a friend whose dh killed himself because the house was about to be repossessed because of his gambling debts. Thank God he only went that far.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2023 19:31

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:20

Why are people saying this is because he had a failed business? I can't see anything about this? He worked for a management consultancy firm. People seem to be making shit up then basing opinions in those made up 'facts'.

Men and women do this for a variety of reasons. Severe mental health episodes are complex. They often are in a state of such delusion by the time they reach this point that they believe they are doing everyone a favour. It's not rational that's the point.

You sound like you have never read anything about men who annihilate their families and God knows there have been enough of them. They don’t do it because they are delusional in the sense that mental health professionals use the term.

Pearfacebanana · 07/02/2023 19:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lots of people have stressful jobs that affect the family unit. Doesn't mean their partner kills their families?!

I have a friend whose husband is an exec head of something like 7 schools. I don't see her killing him.

I like so many of you knew it would be him. It's never (rarely) the mum is it.

tornadoinsideoutfig · 07/02/2023 19:32

Why do these men have to take innocent people out with them? If their life is not worth living, that's their choice, but why take others? How many women murder-suicide? I can only think of cases of desparate women who have tragically taken the life of their disabled child then their own.

ComeTheSpringLobelia · 07/02/2023 19:35

Bouledeneige · 07/02/2023 12:09

We all knew it. Women know it instantly. The abuse Jean Hatchet got yesterday on Twitter for saying it was the usual disgusting bullying misogyny. What did they think was the likely answer? Carbon monoxide, a mutual knife fight, that she did it? Get real. This is the world we live in.

Yes indeed. As soon as it happened I knew. You know it in your gut.

BreatheAndFocus · 07/02/2023 19:39

Why do these men have to take innocent people out with them?

Because they see their partner and children as extensions of them and so they ‘need’ to be killed too? Out of malice - “I’m going to have to kill myself because of X so why should they live? Out of cowardice - ie their primary motivation is to kill their partner but they can’t face any accusations or guilt so also kill their child/children and themselves to avoid facing up to what they’ve done?

It’s a selfish and evil act, motivated by arrogance, resentment and cowardice usually.

SoupDragon · 07/02/2023 19:40

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:25

@SoupDragon then you are completely clueless about mental health episodes. If someone is genuinely suffering from a condition that makes their thoughts irrational then it's not their fault. A woman suffering from severe PND or a person with schizophrenia or in a state of such distress that there is no longer rational thought believes they are doing the only thing that makes sense. Your attitude and those of others who think like you show unbelievable ignorance. The privilege of never being in or knowing anyone who has been this sick. 'I've had depression and I didn't kill anyone' is only further proof of a person's ignorance.

You are making stuff up about his mental health. Which is ironic given you then accuse people of making stuff up.

Did you know him personally?

pristinesurfacesGBTD · 07/02/2023 19:42

SlightlyJaded · 07/02/2023 11:29

It was so fucking inevitable. He will have done it for one of three reasons most probably

He is an arrogant, entitled narc whose business was failing whilst her career was thriving and he just couldn't bare it.
He was hiding something: financial ruin/affair/sexuality and it was about to be discovered
He was mentally ill. Least likely.

Same old same old. Poor poor woman and sweet little girl.

We are not far from Epsom and DD has several friends there - they are all quite traumatised and completely devastated. They will recover of course, but what a completely selfish cunt.

Option 4, she was about to kick him out and / or she was having an affair and / or she was going to leave him and take their child with her. So he got angry and shot her.

Quirkyme · 07/02/2023 19:42

@SoupDragon

I wouldn't engage tbh.

I think it was quite clear from their first Q, which was quite baiting, that they didn't expect you to give the answer you gave.

gawditswindy · 07/02/2023 19:44

They often are in a state of such delusion by the time they reach this point that they believe they are doing everyone a favour

No. That's suicide. Not fucking murder. Stop trying to excuse him.

Quirkyme · 07/02/2023 19:45

tornadoinsideoutfig · 07/02/2023 19:32

Why do these men have to take innocent people out with them? If their life is not worth living, that's their choice, but why take others? How many women murder-suicide? I can only think of cases of desparate women who have tragically taken the life of their disabled child then their own.

To answer your first Q, tbh there are alot of men, in increasing numbers, that see women as competition. Including their partners.

Literally.

And they will drag them down with them in all sorts of ways.

SoupDragon · 07/02/2023 19:49

Quirkyme · 07/02/2023 19:42

@SoupDragon

I wouldn't engage tbh.

I think it was quite clear from their first Q, which was quite baiting, that they didn't expect you to give the answer you gave.

Oh, I know.

However, in my head I can hear her voice (her actual voice) and I've no patience right now.

She was a strong, inspiring and approachable woman. An amazing head. A great role model for the girls she lead for 6 years.

PatchworkElmer · 07/02/2023 19:50

Absolutely horrific. That poor little girl, killed by one of the people she should’ve been able to trust most in the whole world.

OliverBabish · 07/02/2023 19:51

I find the mental health stuff really irritating. I’m a mental health nurse, I have seen many people in the grips of psychosis and they still would not murder anyone and would still recognise that as being wrong.

why - WHY - is it inconceivable to people that some people are narcissistic and cruel?

this case is not unusual and that’s the fucking travesty here

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:51

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel you say it like NO man does this due to mental health issues. ALL men do this because they are narcissistic. Men are just people. Some are cunts. Sone are schizophrenic. Some have mental health issues severe enough to do this shit. Just like women.

Quirkyme · 07/02/2023 19:51

OliverBabish · 07/02/2023 19:51

I find the mental health stuff really irritating. I’m a mental health nurse, I have seen many people in the grips of psychosis and they still would not murder anyone and would still recognise that as being wrong.

why - WHY - is it inconceivable to people that some people are narcissistic and cruel?

this case is not unusual and that’s the fucking travesty here

Preach it

Clymene · 07/02/2023 19:52

This man did not have mental health issues or he would not have been deemed competent to have a gun licence.

My heart goes out to people who are personally affected by this. It's such a shocking and awful tragedy.

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:54

@SoupDragon You are making stuff up about his mental health. Which is ironic given you then accuse people of making stuff up. Did you know him personally?
No. I don't know him WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT LAUNCHING AN ASSASSINATION of a person I know nothing about. Stop fuelling this based on stuff you are making up. The whole thing is a fucking huge tragedy that is going to affect so many people.

SoupDragon · 07/02/2023 20:02

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:54

@SoupDragon You are making stuff up about his mental health. Which is ironic given you then accuse people of making stuff up. Did you know him personally?
No. I don't know him WHICH IS WHY I'M NOT LAUNCHING AN ASSASSINATION of a person I know nothing about. Stop fuelling this based on stuff you are making up. The whole thing is a fucking huge tragedy that is going to affect so many people.

There's only one person who's launched an assassination and that's why we are here.

I am not making anything up whatsoever. Unlike you.

I know it's affecting so many people. It's affecting me and my daughter and we are only on the periphery. It's affecting my DD's teachers. It's affecting the pupils in the junior school who were friends with the daughter. I don't even want to imagine what her family are going through right now. It's unimaginable.

PotKettel · 07/02/2023 20:03

Clymene · 07/02/2023 19:52

This man did not have mental health issues or he would not have been deemed competent to have a gun licence.

My heart goes out to people who are personally affected by this. It's such a shocking and awful tragedy.

Exactly @Clymene . What on earth does an accountant want to keep a gun in the house for? I would like to know how long ago he acquired the gun. He was a dangerous, evil, cowardly man.

I did hope it was CO, honestly. Because it would have been a kinder, gentler death for that little girl and her mum. I hope they sleep peacefully in the life hereafter, and are never forgotten here on earth.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 07/02/2023 20:04

journeyofinsanity · 07/02/2023 19:51

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel you say it like NO man does this due to mental health issues. ALL men do this because they are narcissistic. Men are just people. Some are cunts. Sone are schizophrenic. Some have mental health issues severe enough to do this shit. Just like women.

Don’t bring schizophrenia into this.
Go away and read about this case and engage your brain as other people on this thread have done, read about other family annihilators and stop talking shit.

LulooLemon · 07/02/2023 20:04

Tragic case. RIP Emma and Lettie.

Bouledeneige · 07/02/2023 20:07

I read up on the research on familicide. The murder of your wife and child can be a response to financial or mental health issues. Many people suffer money problems and mental health issues but they don't just murder their wife and 7 year old.

But most commonly such cases involve rage, and is about control - it might be due to jealousy or emasculation, reflect issues about the male role, possessiveness and the need for control. Its key predictor is domestic violence or abuse.

Often after middle class cases people say that they seemed like a respectable family man, a good neighbour etc. But appearances are deceptive. Few of us really know what goes on behind closed doors in relationships. And wives and partners maintain respectable appearances too.

The fact that Emma called a family member on Saturday night may mean that her relative already knew about previous incidences or that they have an explanation from Emma herself about what was going on that night which may or may not become public.

But say her name and keep hold of the anger. Its not just their child who was an innocent victim.

SoupDragon · 07/02/2023 20:08

Time to hide the thread.